[Note: This series originally started as a project on Reddit, and we are archiving the posts here on our site. You can find the original Bible Study posts here.]
Bible study has returned after a 2 week hiatus while I was out of town and otherwise unavailable for posting. Today, we will be discussing Jongho and his journey to ATEEZ, so grab your americanos or wine–whatever you prefer–as we reach for Enlightenment.
"I had it all planned"
01: what are your thoughts on the page?
GD: Reading this, I have a lot of thoughts.
BobbyJ: He never mentions music. Not once. Which begs the question, how did he get here?
GD: There's the line about Yunho grabbing his hand, which is a little confusingly placed, but I assume that means after he punches Mingi?
BobbyJ: He says "our dream" so I guess we can assume
GD: It crossed my mind that it meant Yunho found him and brought him here
BobbyJ: So you think maybe it should read "That lifeless look looked so much like me before Yunho grabbed my hand"? As in he was lifeless like Mingi before Yunho saved him?
GD: Google translate offers the slightly different: "That lifeless, lonely expression, before holding Yunho hyung's hand, it's like me at that time."
BobbyJ: Yes, that makes sense. So I'm getting ahead, as I do. But it's interesting to me the parallel between Jongho and Yunho in a way
GD: say more
BobbyJ: Jongho sees his old self in Mingi and lashes out. Yunho sees his old self in Left Eye and very much doesn't. Stops Left Eye from attacking him and never retaliates.
GD: Yes, I think there's an implication that Yunho has a lot of wisdom? Like he has grown a lot since we read his page, and it makes me wonder if we even really know the Yunho who has been interacting in these later pages
BobbyJ: It's hard to know exactly where he is in the story when we read his entry. It's very on brand for Mingi to declare the dream a "luxury" isn't it? And I don't think he's talking just about the dream here, I think he's referring to the friendship
GD: And he's not necessarily wrong--it's interesting to me the sort of double meaning of dream here. A dream can be an escape, but also a goal, and the way you mean the word changes how you interact with the thing
BobbyJ: I just noticed the line "Funny enough, it was a heart-breaking moment for me but the moment I started [to?] dream again"
GD: Yeah, I have a lot of questions about this, and a lot of those questions are probably based a little on translation and verb tense. Both papago and google translate the same "heart-breaking" into something like "heart-beating" or "heart-pounding," which made me wonder if Jongho meant his time in the warehouse--it was heartbreaking to have lost his one dream, but he's learned of a new dream. Or if he meant punching Mingi made him realize that he really did have a dream again
BobbyJ: Oh--I think I have a thought
GD: yes
BobbyJ: Yes, along those lines. So, I feel that Jongho is very angry because of his injury and inability to do the one thing he believes he can do. And the lack of any mention of music or dance suggests that neither were really his thing. But when Mingi breaks up the band, he realizes how much it meant to him. And this becomes his new dream he's going to pursue. I think too that he was carrying a lot of anger and really needed somewhere for it to go in order for him to open his eyes, so to speak
GD: I think that's the right interpretation.
BobbyJ: Does it remind me of something we talked about with Woo?
GD: I feel like he may have thought he was just passing time here now that his dream had been stolen from him, but it took this threat for him to realize what he had. We definitely talked about "realizing what you had" with Wooyoung.
BobbyJ: Yes--something about returning to the warehouse
GD: I'm looking it up. because I must
"We're getting different snippets of their time together from everyone, and it's revealing what is important about their character. So maybe the thing we need to understand for Wooyoung is that this is the moment that he realized it's not just the dance or music--it's about the people you're with. Like this is Woyoung's 'ah, it really is the friends you make along the way' moment that will motivate him to act in certain ways..."
So yeah, we were talking about how after he successfully dances and reaches his 'goal' he runs back to the warehouse and realizes that it wasn't just the dance
BobbyJ: An interesting connection with Woo. Also with Hwa--the idea that he had a plan he simply couldn't deviate from
GD: I was just thinking about Seonghwa, actually. It's interesting that Seonghwa chose to not follow the plan and Jongho didn't have a choice. I get the impression that Jongho (at least thinks he) would've been perfectly happy following the plan if he'd been able to do so
BobbyJ: I think that's true. I don't think he even imagined there could be more to his life. I'm very curious about his motivations. He doesn't talk about family or friends. He seems to suggest he only pursues basketball because it's what he's good at and not because he loves it.
GD: I have on many occasions called Jongho's story silly compared to some of the others, and I would like to heartily take that back. I'm just thinking about how painful it would be as a young adult to be suddenly told you cannot do the thing you always thought you would do. I have a story.
BobbyJ: Excellent. I'm going to run and get my ice cream
GD: When I was growing up, I always said I wanted to be the president one day, and I had a very real plan for how I was going to become that. College, law school, fbi, the military, and then get into local politics and work my way up. So I did that. I graduated high school early, got a high gpa in college, got a scholarship to law school, and then my second summer in law school, I applied to intern for the FBI. And I got accepted. All I had to do was pass the background check, which I didn't do. They accused me of lying on the polygraph test, and then they kicked me out of the FBI offices, and that was that. At the time, it was so incredibly painful because I had no idea what I was supposed to do or why I was even in law school. Like, it was awful--at the time. But looking back on it, I had no passion for any of those things. I don't even know why I wanted them. It was just a thing I said in high school and then started to believe? I think I'd be absolutely miserable if that was the path I'd followed. But the point is, I can imagine how this would shake up Jongho's world. And also, to your point, that he may not even know why he's pursuing basketball other than he just is.
BobbyJ: Okay first of all, I am flabbergasted. Not that any of that is particularly crazy just that it's so wildly different from me that I'm struggling to comprehend.
GD: everyone always wants to know why I want to law school and there it is
BobbyJ: I just assumed you wanted to be a lawyer but then decided it wasn't for you
GD: I was always interested in art and entertainment, so I course corrected my last year and studied copyright law instead of national security law and that's what I practiced. And as you can see, my interest in arts and entertainment has Blossomed into this religious practice.
BobbyJ: (lol, "blossomed" indeed) Second of all, I do feel like Jongho simply pursued what he was good at. Made a decision and went with it. Very much a head decision and not a heart decision (not that one is necessarily better than the other).
GD: I think it's wild that we expect children to decide what they want to be for the rest of their lives
BobbyJ: I knew I wanted to be a teacher at 7. It happens
GD: My 15 year old self who thought she would become president and rid this country of capitalism disagrees but at least my views on capitalism have maintained.
BobbyJ: I don't think that I'm the standard though. And I did go off course in college
GD: I guess the thing is that people change. I've changed wildly from who I was at 15, to 20, to 25, to 30. And not all people change, but many do, and change can be unpredictable. I'm confident that my 15 year old self would be pretty pleased with how things turned out, but if my 20 year old self could see me? She'd be devastated. So I think it's not at all strange for Jongho to be like, you know what, actually, this is what I want. And that it would take something Big to make him realize it
BobbyJ: Are you talking about basketball or music?
GD: Music. I think he had no love for basketball--it was just a story he told himself. There's a little bit of Hongjoong in his basketball dreams. He doesn't want to just play basketball--he wants to be a star.
BobbyJ: It's like a little bit of his true self was there all along? If that makes any sense. Because I get this sense that Jongho is just doing what it takes to survive--play basketball bc that's what he can do well--but that he wants to be The Best tells me that he is a dreamer after all.
GD: It makes absolute sense, and I guess it's a good reminder to think about the "why" underneath the what. What are you pursuing this goal in service of? I do think Jongho doesn't realize his new dream until the fallout of the punch because of the last line. "where are we, where should we go?" It reminds me of the WDIG lyrics
BobbyJ: Yes--I was thinking it's a shame you already picked it for your hymn. But I think you picked it for Mingi which is quite fitting.
GD: It also reminds me of cyberpunk. Actually, a lot of these journals remind me of what we see in The World, and I feel like that means something.
BobbyJ: It's almost as though they had a plan the whole time
GD: No, that would be crazy. I feel like I should have more thoughts on the picture, but I don't. The ground is wet.
BobbyJ: As opposed to the fire in Inception. Maybe also in the Diary Film?
GD: It's taken in the past, it seems. Perhaps it's time to load up those films.
BobbyJ: Alrighty. Question: He's too injured to play basketball, but he can dance with the boys?
GD: yeah.. I don't have much to say on that; it's confusing. But I guess it would depend on the injury?
BobbyJ: Oh wow--the punchening is the most replayed part of the video
GD: Isn't there some true to life bit about it? Like didn't he actually have a soccer injury that prevented him from playing soccer? or was that some atiny fever dream tweet stated as fact that I once came across
BobbyJ: I don't think so? At least, I don't remember him ever talking about that. He wanted to be a soccer player at one time, I think. But he's also been singing and training to be an idol for a long time
GD: It was probably something like when he was little he got hurt a single time playing soccer, and it got telephoned into "and he had to give up his dream of playing soccer". Anyways, the fever road epilogue with him and Yunho is pretty intense. But I had the thought that maybe his dream all along was similar to Hongjoong's, so the dream maintains, but the vehicle has changed.
BobbyJ: I'm still watching the diary film because I'm trying to break down the events. Is Mingi roughing up Yeo and San before Jongho intervenes? Like they appear to be arguing with him and then Jongho yeets San out of the way and slams Mingi up against the wall. I assume the other boys weren't there at the time. Maybe all the og members were dancing by the river
GD: I am going to watch at .25 as one does
BobbyJ: Watching Fever Road. Jongho with the broken mirrors like in Guerrilla
GD: First, there is no better film than the diary film. where's the awards? Robbed.
BobbyJ: Uhhh--he's in the bathtub talking about giving up on everything. Feels. . . bleak
GD: THAT'S WHAT I SAID. It's pretty intense
BobbyJ: Is that the message they intended to send?
GD: I'm not sure what the alternate message could be. But something I noticed in the beginning of his diary film, when he's first talking about basketball, it feels like he's talking about his teammates. He says something along the lines of "they were all I had". It reminds me of what you said once--if some of our key players were deeply into finger painting, would that have been the thing? Like, maybe Jongho does or does not love basketball and/or music, but maybe he is very lonely and is need of community.
BobbyJ: I was just thinking--I know that the team is practicing and can't exactly leave the court--but he's very much alone in the stands. Perhaps the idea is that the team abandoned him when he was no use to them–perhaps not abandoned, but kept moving forward when Jongho could not
GD: I think it's hard in those high school pocket communities. They are partially community because they are always around each other. if Jongho can't join them, it might just be that he sort of fades out of it. It makes me think, if Yunho sees someone lose their dream and be alone in such a bleak space... it makes absolute sense that he would intercede with what we know about his brother. And that he would offer up this new community to him, especially if he can sense that the dream is to one day be a star.
BobbyJ: I wonder how he could sense it though. Jongho doesn't strike me as a the sort to share that info easily–I FORGOT TO START THE PLAYLIST AGAIN
GD: We've come too far to start over. On your point about why aren't the og 4 there, it's interesting to me that San specifically isn't with them. If they are out performing or whatever, it makes absolute sense for Yeosang to not join--his parents might see. Mingi too. But why not bring San along?
BobbyJ: They left him to babysit?
GD: Well San did a poor job if that's true
BobbyJ: He did his best. Would you be able to control a wild Jongho?
GD: Should've left Woo in charge. I have a thought, maybe–an almost thought–more like a question. If they got in a fight when the og4 weren't there, I guess it makes me wonder about what happened next. 1) did the other 4 come back to an abandoned warehouse, their group imploding while they were out? things never quite the same? or 2) did they keep chasing music and their dream without Mingi for a while? the group finally imploding because of Yeosang's family? I feel like I may be forgetting something from a different book.
BobbyJ: I feel that it all happened more gradually than it's portrayed. I think Mingi was the beginning of the end. Yeo says his father kicked them out, but none of the other members ever talk about it. I think maybe it was a series of circumstances. San was supposed to be moving, so how did he get out of that?
GD: There are a lot of holes in this part of the story specifically for me. I actually feel like the rest of the diaries are pretty fleshed out by comparison, but we will talk about more holes next week.
BobbyJ: Because we don't necessarily need to know everything that went down, I guess. The important thing is the personal struggles
GD: So what do you think we should take away about Jongho from this page? Perhaps that's an official question we should add, but also maybe it should come after our religious practice.
BobbyJ: I feel it should come somewhere adjacent to the mental murder board
GD: yes, right before the closing
02: sacred practice
BobbyJ: It's a sermon night I believe
GD: I'm re-reading this looking for my line, and honestly, reading it post the bathtub scene has given me a new upsetting feeling.
BobbyJ: I forgot I needed to be picking a line
GD: I think I have my line.
BobbyJ: Tell me yours first. I have some possibilities
GD: "Is it okay to live like this?" I feel like it's my turn to build this sermon first? Though I don't remember, so I'll just go.
I would want to talk about how we all have this question--when we are happy: is it okay to be this happy? will someone take my happiness away? --when we're struggling: why didn't I get this done today? why am I like this? And you know, I think it's a universal question regardless of where we are and what we're doing. We want to know if the thing we're doing is Okay. I was watching this Ted Talk today, and the woman said something like, "good enough is perfect." She was talking about care taking responsibilities, so she also had this idea that care taking is "morally neutral", and that keeping a clean house doesn't make us a good person. But the idea that good enough is perfect seemed really useful to me, and I would like to suggest that when we start asking ourselves those questions about whether what we're doing is okay, we start answering it with a good enough is perfect. So perhaps, my sermon would be about being compassionate to oneself.
BobbyJ: My principal, who is wonderful, makes it a habit to try and stop in to check on all of us at least once a day. The other day, we were chatting about how my classes were going and I said something about how I wasn't differentiating enough for my liking but that it's just my first year in this particular position so "everyone is just going to have to be okay with it. Especially me." I'm usually pretty hard on myself, trying to always be above whatever the standard is, but this year my motto has been basically that good enough is good enough for now. I do feel there's a danger with reaching a plateau and becoming complacent.
GD: I think it's very hard to let ourselves be sub standard when we know we have the capacity to do things at a higher standard under ideal conditions.
BobbyJ: the "ideal conditions" being the key
GD: It's like, in life, I actually can't get straight A's--I have to learn to accept some D's, and I just need to decide where I'm going to take that D. Will it be on my lawn? or will it be in my work? or will it be in my parenting? Unfortunately, the reality is I can't get an A in all 3. So my lawn will take a D, and that's good enough, and so it's perfect.
BobbyJ: It takes me back to our conversation about "what even is perfect?"
GD: the word is more malleable than society would have us believe
BobbyJ: Perfection is whatever I need right now, methinks.
GD: I have a friend who also works from home like me, and she sometimes asks me what my perfect day looks like, and this is how I discovered that routines are a trap for me. Because I thought, "ah, easy, I'll build my perfect day and then just do that every day and then I'll have a perfect life". But it turns out that on some days, what makes a day perfect is working from my bed or trying something new or some other thing that I hadn't really thought of because is it "perfect" if you feel like you have to do it every day? to achieve Perfection?
BobbyJ: I am a person who absolutely thrives on routine and I couldn't tell you what my perfect day is like. I think because I just can't grasp the idea of perfect. My days are all good enough, mostly.
GD: I've told her the question we should start asking for me is something more like "how can I keep myself from getting bored?"
BobbyJ: When I was in grad school the first time, I discovered that I hated it when my roommate asked me how my day was when we both got home because I never had an answer. Like, you're supposed to say "fine" or "good" or "terrible" but my days are always a combination of all those things. And while I love telling a good story, my days usually don't have good stories in them.
GD: English language fails us when it comes to greetings. Even at the funeral I was at last weekend, it was full of "how are you?" "fine and you?" "fine". We were at a funeral; no one was fine. But yet everyone was fine.
BobbyJ: The curse of small talk. The bane of a 5's existence. I suppose it's my turn now. Let me get my brain in order. It's been a bit of a struggle to really land on a line because I'd like to be able to give some sort of answer or reveal a truth, but I'm not certain I'm capable of that. But the line I'm going with is "No matter how hard I tried, I was still stuck in the exact same spot."
I think I've chosen this one because it resonates with me personally. I know very, very well how this feels: to be working and planning and pondering so very hard but not feeling able to progress. And I think one of the reasons that Jongho felt so stuck was that he wasn't sure where he was going. And I know that you can absolutely be assured of what you're trying to do or accomplish and still feel trapped or unable to move forward. But for me, it was because I lost my vision of where and who I wanted to be. So, I had to work that out first before I could move anywhere. But the thing is--you can't force it. And that was what I was trying to do for a very long time. Maybe it's different for everyone, but I had to wait patiently for the stars to align before I could see clearly. Even now, I'm still working things out--things that I often feel I should've worked out many years ago--but I think that's also the thing: there's no age limit for confusion or for change and growth. Jongho found himself on a new path with a new dream when the time was right. So it's just a matter of biding your time until then. And I don't think his time waiting was wasted; nor was mine.
GD: In fact, often the more we try to force something, the worse it becomes. It's when we try to stop forcing it that we can really see what we actually want. It also reminds me of when people say something like "it happened overnight" because I think what you described is a universal experience that most people just don't notice is happening. Like, we don't see other people going through it, I mean. We don't see the messy and confusing part, or the part where they just have to keep trying new and different things--we always only see the final result
BobbyJ: This is why it's so important not to compare our own journeys with others'. Like Wooyoung said, compare yourself to yourself only.
GD: He is full of wisdom. One day, I'd like someone to gather all of the wise advice he's given out and compile it for me.
BobbyJ: I was thinking this about Mingi today. I'd like him to write a book because I find his perspective very interesting.
GD: He seems a likely candidate for book writing if there's going to be a book that comes out of ateez. We should mental murder board because I suddenly realized I'm ravenous and should eat dinner.
03: mental murder board
BobbyJ: Well, we've talked about connections with Hwa, Yunho, and Woo. Possibly with Hongjoong as well; wanting to be a star.
GD: I think there's something interesting about Mingi there too. Like, Mingi saying that a dream is a luxury might be particularly painful to someone who was told they could not pursue their dream? I'm not entirely sure but something along those lines
BobbyJ: Jongho's relationship with Mingi is something I want to track
GD: yeah me too. Of note real quick: the water on the basketball court could be somehow related to snow but it's the reachest reach I've ever reached. Just thought it should be said
BobbyJ: Is this before or after they set it on fire? Also if fire is passion, then the water put it out, and Jongho lacks passion at the moment. Or rather, direction for the passion
GD: so the basketball court is watery in both videos too. the things on the basketball court are on fire. There's a shopping cart full of on fire basketballs, which seems like a Choice.
BobbyJ: Choices were indeed Made. Also maybe it was just rainy that day
04: closing
BobbyJ: I have mine. I'm choosing Gravity, and not just bc it's Jongho. It's this line:
I can't stop the stifling darkness I can't even walk a step on my own But with you by my side, I'll get through it I can overcome my destiny
GD: ohhh that's good. I'm still thinking, as always. Ateez truly has some of the greatest, most inspiring lyrics I've ever read.
BobbyJ: Oh I know. I have Experience.
GD: I was going through Sunrise, and I absolutely feel like I will cry. Anyways, okay I finally have it: Blue Summer.
Haha I'm not qualified to play It's already out of my control Their summers are blue My heart dashing against the waves deep blue Really? Really? Really? I can heal if I become an adult? If this pain is natural Then stop stop stop
BobbyJ: Well that's just perfect
GD: It was hard to find a lyrics translation, but I feel good about it
BobbyJ: That deep down he always cared even when maybe he didn't act like it. Even he didn't realize.
GD: Yeah, like he's always been hungry for something, but he didn't really know what.
BobbyJ: He was just a baby
GD: I have a late realization: but his first line is "I" and his last line is "we", and that's really cool
BobbyJ: Like the "I became ours"
GD: exactly. We sort of said it last week, but these really are just each boys how/why I'm part of this we
BobbyJ: Right. Which is why we don't get all the juicy details of the drama because that's not the point.
BobbyJ: Should we call upon Jongho or someone Jongho needs?
GD: Probably.
BobbyJ: Maybe Jongho needs himself, his true self
GD: Mmmm yes good
BobbyJ: Okay then
GD: So “may Jongho be his truest self”? Or do we have a snappy saying?
BobbyJ: Iced americano
GD: Jongho
BobbyJ: Be the light
GD: Halazia
BobbyJ: Halazia
And that’s it for our Jongho discussion! Any insights you have about Jongho and his goals? Now that we have all 8 of their stories, what connections do you see! We hope to be back next week with discussion of the Outro, but best to not count on timeliness. The spirit moves in mysterious ways.
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