[Note: This series originally started as a project on Reddit, and we are archiving the posts here on our site. You can find the original Bible Study posts here.]
Welcome to Part 2 of our discussion of Wooyoung's page. You can refer to Part 1 to see all our mundane and unenlightened thoughts on his page before breaking into our bible study practice.
02: sacred practice
Today, we are writing for 10 minutes about line 27:
When I danced with them, I wasn't self conscious and was able to deliver my best performance.
BobbyJ: Alrighty then
GD: I feel like my watch favors end lines. anyways, I'll be back in 10 minutes with a semi-filled google doc of bad thoughts.
Murklin: Hm
[10 minute pause]
GD: I've finished, and it's long.
BobbyJ: Kinda same. idk if I managed to say anything but I have a lot of words
GD: absolutely. I know I said nothing. I think it's my turn to share first
GD's Sacred Writing Practice:
This sort of reminds me of something I remember Jongho saying a couple of times last year. He talked about how when he’s on stage with ATEEZ, he feels more comfortable and confident. I think he may have even mentioned that his other members can cover for him if something goes wrong? Or maybe that’s just how I interpreted it at the time. But I know for me, I have definitely made friends do stuff with me that I didn’t want to do because it was easier to do it with someone else. Even if they didn’t do anything–knowing they existed and were standing there next to me made the thing I had to do easier. I’m torn on whether I think that’s a good or bad thing? But maybe it’s just a thing. There are times I must do things alone, and I do do them. But when something can be done with someone else? Is there a reason to choose to do it alone anyways? I’m not sure I think there is any more power in saying, “yeah, I did that all on my own” than there is in saying “yeah, we did that together.” Actually, this sort of reminds me of a story my thesis advisor once told me. She was talking about another professor, and how she didn’t think the professor had a good image, and she said something like, “She has a PhD–she should be smart enough to know how to get help when she’s not an expert. I don’t know anything about fashion, but I know how to walk into Dillards and ask the sales clerk to pick me out some outfits.” And you know, in hindsight, I realize this might be a little bitchy? (like who cares what someone is wearing) But at the time it really stuck out to me, and it is a philosophy I’ve always adopted. If I don’t feel like I know how to do something, I find someone else who does and ask them for help. I guess the thing that trips me up about Wooyoung’s statement is that it almost feels like he’s trying to hide himself within the group? Because he’s scared to be seen? If there are more people to look at, it means less focus and attention is on you. But maybe he’s not. Maybe he just finds performing with friends to be better. And also, maybe he is, and so what? Does someone have to be perceived all the time? I guess I think there’s something a little lovely about being able to protect your heart and passion by standing strong with your friends. He’s found a way to do the thing he loves, and he’s found strength, and that’s really cool. Just because you want to do something doesn’t mean you want to do it in the spotlight at all times.
BobbyJ: The spotlight takes me back to our conversation about Hongjoong–The idea that it's not always welcome
GD: And that is can also be very lonely
BobbyJ: But if you share it. . .
GD: less lonely, less isolating
Murklin: Well I wrote a lot less than this but I think we went in at least one similar direction
BobbyJ: I think the idea about there not really being any glory in doing something alone is interesting and reminds me of Beowulf
Murklin: I'm interested in Beowulf thoughts
BobbyJ: Not to constantly relate literally everything to teaching, but we did read Beowulf in the fall and one of our discussion points was about how Beowulf was so determined to do everything alone and how it ended up being his fatal flaw
GD: A not uncommon fatal flaw in lots of literature. You know those books you read where you're just like "oh my god please just tell someone what's happening to you so it can all be fixed"
BobbyJ: And aren't the boys constantly talking about depending on each other more? And not bearing things alone?
GD: They are. I would argue that, despite the literature, we do live in a society that values Individual Achievement over team work. And I don't think Korean society is that different? I know they do have a more communal and societal aspect, but I think they still value individual achievement (but i don't know this to be true)
BobbyJ: Feels capitalist but I can't explain why
Murklin: Well you have to buy more things if everyone needs their own
GD: oh good the anti-capitalist thoughts have arrived already.
BobbyJ: This time coming from me which I think is new
GD: A disease. I've given it to you.
BobbyJ: you've been an influence
GD: Capitalism also perpetuates the idea that we can't be equal--someone must be achieving more and we must always keep achieving more. There's no real benefit to blending in with someone. But I think it's nice to think actually, it's okay to blend in sometimes. I don't always have to make myself stand out and be seen. I can just do the things I want because I want to do them
BobbyJ: It feels like there's something in there about not comparing yourself to others
GD: Can I take us on a tangent?
BobbyJ: Would it be bible study without tangents?
GD: on my 11 hour car ride yesterday, I listened to a bit of Brene Brown's Atlas of the Heart, and she had this bit on the two emotions of admiration and reverence. Apparently, there are studies that say comparing oneself to others is as automatic as breathing. You genuinely cannot help comparing yourself to other people. And BOTH upward comparisons or downward comparisons have been shown to have a negative impact on your self worth and happiness. So all the time, we are constantly engaging in this action that has the power to actively make us unhappier.
BobbyJ: How do I know where I am if I don't have a reference or context?
GD: But they were saying that what matters is what you do with the comparison because there are certain types of comparisons that affect us well. One of them was admiration. When you admire someone, you take active steps in your life to be a better person. Not more like the person you admire, but more like the best version of yourself. So it is good to surround yourself with people you admire
BobbyJ: It's almost like if I don't have other people to compare myself to, I might as well exist in a void
GD: If you Revere someone, that's not true. You don't try to better yourself; you try to get closer to the person you revere, so it’s not good to surround yourself with people you revere.
BobbyJ: This feels like an opportune time to share my doc actually
BobbyJ's Sacred Writing Practice:
My first and very obvious thought is the idea of friends or certain groups of people being able to bring out the best in us. But I also can’t help but let my mind wander to Wooyoung’s time training at Big Hit and how this translates to real life. I know that it was a struggle for him there and that he left for a reason. But I do feel that Ateez truly is that group of people that brings out his best. And I do feel the same about the atmosphere at KQ (haters be damned). And I think the realization that it was the people that brought out his best and that maybe they were more important than he realized. I wonder if because he seems to have had so many friends which he seems to have made so easily if he took them for granted a bit easier? I think though that it would be unfair to say that people with a lot of friends don’t appreciate them as much. He says specifically that he wasn’t “self-conscious” which tells me he was able to focus on something else. You know how compliments from certain people are worth so much more than from other people? Because Wooyoung admires Hongjoong, Hwa, and Yunho on an artistic level, it would mean a lot to him that they complimented his performance. And that would boost his confidence and make him feel more secure in his own dancing. Wooyoung strikes me as being drawn specifically to people that he admires. Which seems obvious, but it’s like he wants people that he views as “better” than him in some way to constantly challenge himself. And in that sense, I think that Woo offering someone his friendship would actually be very precious and flattering. Because he doesn’t view people as charity cases. Which I maybe think Mingi might have originally assumed. What I think I’m saying is that Woo is actually much more picky with his friends than he maybe gets credit for. But he has a lot because he is able to see something in people that others might not see. And at this point I’m not sure if I mean real or fictional Woo.
GD: The Woo being picky with his friends thing is actually very interesting. I remember that Yunho said something similar in an Idol Radio about being one of Wooyoung's darlings as a very precious honor. And it could just be that Wooyoung treats his friends well, which he does, but it could also mean that it's not easy to become one of Wooyoung's chosen people. And it's clear that Wooyoung does admire HwaJoongHo from even this small snippet--like it does seem like he wanted to get close to them because he found them to be Special in a way he appreciated.
Murklin: matz advice though is "believe in yourself". Admire yourself. see your own specialness
GD: I think that's the thing about admiration: it always makes you want to be the best you you can be. Truthfully, when I'm at my happiest and most productive, it's often because ATEEZ has done something I admire. I want to be a better (fill in the blank) because they did something so cool it shows me I can do something cool too. I've never thought that I wanted to be a kpop idol tho or give it all up and move to Korea to follow them around. Me admiring them makes me want to be a better me. But we know that it can go the other way and can be unhealthy, and I think that has something to do with whether what we're feeling is admiration or some sort of reverence. Wooyoung here is on the admiration side, and he's become a better him in the process. I guess it's just easy to imagine it going the other way: he saw their cool expressions and was like 'they're cooler than me I'll just follow them around and hide behind them'
BobbyJ: I'm not 100% convinced he wanted to hide. To me it feels more like he wanted someone to learn from.
GD: Yeah, I'm saying he didn't want to hide.
BobbyJ: Is my reading comprehension failing me again?
GD: no i think it's on me. I said a lot of things, but sadly none of them were important, and so my point got lost
BobbyJ: No no, I see it now. That it would have been so easy for it to be different--for him to want to hide--but that's NOT the option he chose
GD: Yes, exactly
BobbyJ: I remember when I first got into Ateez, it made me want to be the best damn teacher that ever was. And that obviously has nothing to do with kpop and everything to do with their passion for excellence being infectious. I didn't want to sing and dance but I wanted to be awesome at something
GD: Yeah, I guess that's why all of my playlists have some ATEEZ song on them. When I hear their songs, I'm like "oh hell yeah of course I can do this". Doesn't really matter what the "this" is. Sometimes it's writing, sometimes it's making things, sometimes it's simply cleaning my house
BobbyJ: If baby Hongjoong can rewrite an entire song because his laptop was stolen, then I can certainly deal with laundry chair
GD: YES. Murklin can testify--the first story I told them about ATEEZ was about Hongjoong's stolen laptop.In my pool, trying to explain why I like them so much.
Murklin: true facts
BobbyJ: I can say with honesty that discovering Ateez has been Important in my life. And people can say all they want that "it's just kpop" and "it's not that deep" but for me it IS that deep because I have chosen for it to Mean Something.
GD: Right. They've actively made my life better in multiples of ways that cannot be counted. And it's part of the reason why I've never really been able to engage with conversations where other people talk about 'becoming too attached' or 'it's not making me happy anymore'. I think they're falling on that other side of the equation? Not admiring, but revering.
BobbyJ: And, in an attempt to bring it full circle, I think the same can be said for Wooyoung. We don't know what all the other boys are doing post-break up. We only know that--if my interpretation is correct which is debatable--he's still chasing his dream even without the others. And while some people might want to sweep a whole bunch of seemingly failed relationships under the rug, Wooyoung wants it to mean something. He's carrying the strength he got from them with him into whatever his future is (not knowing, of course, that the Cromer is a thing)
GD: As we go into future Wooyoung pages, and I guess really all of them, I'd like us to take special note of Wooyoung's relationships to others and the strength he has now and how that's affected his actions and choices. But I guess what's interesting is that with your interpretation, which I buy, and my feeling about his discovery, I think, like Seonghwa, Wooyoung has achieved most of his character growth.
BobbyJ: Has been literally noted
GD: Murklin would you like to share your writing or are you ready to go to the mental murder board?
Murklin: suuure it's short
Murklin's Sacred Writing:
When I danced with them I wasn’t self conscious and was able to deliver my best performance. When I danced without them I was self conscious and could not deliver my best performance. When I was alone but was able to draw strength from the memory of being together I was not alone. I am never alone because I have the memories of being together. Better together. When I am alone and unable to remember being together. Self conscious. But he can do it when he is alone and is only recording himself. A barrier between the viewer. Hongjoong’s barriers between himself and the people on tv. Wooyoung’s safe inside his own barriers and unsafe outside of them. Until he lets other people in and can feel safe and confident within and without. Do they film pick it up in that parking garage?
GD: lol at the closing question
BobbyJ: Did they film Pick it Up in LA? It's what I've always assumed but I'm wrong a lot
Murklin: well i was stream of concisousing instead of essaying lol
GD: I like the contrast (is contrast the right word?) between Hongjoong barriers and Wooyoung barriers. Like Hongjoong wants to break through the barriers, but Wooyoung find some safety in them? That's not necessarily contrast, but w/e
BobbyJ: I'm reminded of "I'm not alone and I will never be"
GD:. Ah, yeah, his tattoo. An important message to him. I thought it was meaningful that he used those words so much in his dance film too.
BobbyJ: It reminds of the barrier created by the warehouse itself The iron fence was it?
GD: Iron gate?
BobbyJ: Yes. Also Yeosang's prison bars
GD: honestly, this page does offer a bit of a slightly different interpretation on his tattoo, and I'm sort of stuck on that. I don't have anything to say about it. I'm just stuck on it.
BobbyJ: I keep trying to say something but I can't make it happen. A Thought I can't pin down
GD: Perhaps we should both just lit it simmer for a bit. I feel like I possibly have more to say about barriers, but those thoughts may need more marination as well. So maybe we mental murder board and see what happens
04: mental murder board
BobbyJ: I think I've already been doing that
GD: Yeah, sort of a mess with that today. But on the subject of winter/summer terms, nothing
BobbyJ: Hard to converse according to rules
GD: rules are a capitalist trick, or something like that, which is why we don't follow them
BobbyJ: I think it's notable that Woo's entry is after the implosion. Whereas everyone else seems to be during? Except maybe Hwa. His is a flashback so it's hard to say. And he doesn't talk about the other members at all.
GD: More evidence that these are likely not in order
BobbyJ: I think that's a definite
GD: Well, we don't see winter and summer terminology but arguably, we have red and blue in the picture. those are the two most notable colors to me
Murklin: and the yellow you apparently can't perceive
GD: I see no yellow, no, but I'm willing to believe you. I have thoughts on the title of Wooyoung's page and the fact that he's not at an audition, but they're mostly just... why isn't this an audition? So probably not important.
BobbyJ: I'm going to assume that he's testing the waters, so to speak, without his friends as back up. That what we see in the diary film is actually happening in this entry. He goes to dance in the parking garage, feels intimidated, remembers his friends, and then kills it.
GD: I guess my thought is that he has successfully danced in front of people before because he successfully danced in front of Ateez. So what makes this different than that if that set up is the same? He's just dancing with 'friends'
BobbyJ: Are they friends though? That's just what I assumed What if it's just like a random collection of dance people
GD: I think thematically and story wise, it should be some sort of audition or competition
Murklin: peers perhaps. likeminded dance fellows
BobbyJ: It's clearly not an audition, so I would place my bets on some sort of underground competition
Murklin: the competition is for cred
GD: in fairness, I do not know much about dance crews and groups of dancing peers and their way of life as evidenced by the whole biting thing going unnoticed by me. So perhaps I would not understand the pressure and importance of just dancing in front of my dance peers because I am not of the community. I'm willing to concede on that. Any other thoughts for the mental murder board or are we ready to pick closing hymnals?
BobbyJ: I've got a real head empty situation going on, so let's hymn it out
05: closing
GD: I need to think Thoughts to pick my hymn
BobbyJ: I have three wildly different options so I'll go last
Murklin: is it too lazy to pick to the beat?
GD: If that's where the spirit takes you. Mine is Still Here
BobbyJ: We have already picked Still Here--are you fine with that?
GD: UGH. I was so pleased with it too. Felt so right
BobbyJ: You could do the acoustic version?
GD: ugh, hold on. let me think again [a long pause] okay. no hold on. [another long pause] fuck it. Dancing Like Butterfly Wings.
BobbyJ: Final answer?
GD: Yes.
BobbyJ: Okay, well, I had three options: Celebrate, Don't Stop, and Aurora
GD: I considered Celebrate
BobbyJ: And the more I think about it, the more I think it needs to be Aurora because I like the metaphor of the lights in the darkness--like Woo's memories keeping him company on stage
GD: ah, yes, that's nice. I thought Celebrate was too happy for Woo's current place, and I thought butterfly wings were a little more precarious and delicate than full on celebration
BobbyJ: A bit more ephemeral. Did we decide on our closing prayer?
GD: Pink hair
BobbyJ: Mingi
GD: be the light
BobbyJ: Halazia
GD: perfect, nailed it.
Murklin: lol wat
GD: it's our official bible study closing prayer.
BobbyJ: What happens when Mingi's hair is no longer pink?
GD: if we learned anything today, it's that our memories live on inside of us
BobbyJ: Indeed
GD: Pink hair Mingi is incredibly important to everyone in this chat, so we've adopted him into religious practice
BobbyJ: Some of us would go to war for him
Murklin: i guess that's right
GD: Though, perhaps it should be a different person who says the call each time? We can workshop the closing prayer
BobbyJ: I do think to be fair, we should incorporate everyone. And it can rotate
GD: Are you saying we should have a third call and response? What about when Murklins doesn't join? What if a different person joins?
BobbyJ: I'm saying we should have 9 and vary who gets called
GD: 9, the most religious of numbers
BobbyJ: What if one day I want to call upon San? "Choi San" "Mountain" idk
GD: hmmm yes, I see. Well, think on it. Homework.
And that’s it for Wooyoung’s page! We were a bit all over the place, but the spirit moves in mysterious ways. A thank you to Murklin for being willing to sit with us for 4 hours as we discussed 30 lines of text, and another thank you to anyone who reads our insane ramblings on our path to personal Bliss. Let us know what you think of Wooyoung’s page or anything it made you think of. Or, better still, feel free to share your own 10 minute writing!
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