[Note: This series originally started as a project on Reddit, and we are archiving the posts here on our site. You can find the original Bible Study posts here.]
And here, we continue the discussion we started in Part 1, actually getting to the Bible Study portion of the event.
02: Sacred Practice
Today, we are doing the Reading Practice that we did during our first bible study. We will be looking at a random line in the text and trying to find new meanings. The line we are doing today is line 4.
On days like this, we would have gone to the Han River for some street performance, right?
GD: Well... lol
BobbyJ: Okay sure
GD: What is happening at a narrative level?
BobbyJ: Well that's the question isn't it? Can't be 100% sure, but Yunho is visiting his brother in some form. Maybe in an urn, maybe in a hospital bed.
GD: He is reminiscing about the past? With a brother who may or may not be physically present or able to respond
BobbyJ: Yes--somewhere between the past (reminiscing) and future (achieving dreams)
GD: Okay, well I feel ill at ease with our answers, but I don't think that's our fault
BobbyJ: Is it the lack of certainty?
GD: I think so.. it's because we truly don't know what's happening on a narrative level here, right? All we can do is make some informed guesses
BobbyJ: He's visiting his brother. This is certain
GD: Yes. He is visiting his brother, nostalgic for the past, and longing for the past to be the present. The second question is what is happening at the metaphorical/allegorical level? This is where we try to connect this line to other parts in the story or other media outside of the story… I feel like we should address the fact that we will be missing some cultural context here. What does the Han River mean and symbolize to people living in Seoul? How is it represented in Korean media? We can't really get an answer to that, so I think best to acknowledge that we will likely miss all of that, and just try to do the best we can with the tools we do have.
BobbyJ: I think on the surface, the Han River is a beautiful gathering place. Rivers in general can represent life (freshwater, the ability to water crops) and transportation/progress.
GD: I often associate water with freedom. And I think that's a common association; I'm thinking of Moana, as one does, and the Pirate of the Caribbean. But those are open waters, more so than a river
BobbyJ: Rivers lead to open waters. They're a pathway to freedom
GD: I think a river also symbolizes change to me. ]I'm thinking of the phrase crossing the river, or even just the rushing water.
BobbyJ: I'm thinking of that Joni Mitchell song--"I wish I had a river I could skate away on"
GD: I love that--
BobbyJ: The River Styx
GD: a river moves, right? It takes you from one place to another
BobbyJ: Yes, but you're limited by the path of the river
GD: Rivers can also be very treacherous and dangerous, though this sentence does not imply that this one is. I'd like to talk about street performances in media. In the kdramas where I've seen a street performance, it's always very idyllic and romantic.
BobbyJ: Same for the street performances Ateez has posted
GD: But I to think there is another interpretation of a street performance right--like the idyllic and romantic part is for the people watching, but for the actual street performer there is some implied hustle? Some getting your name out however possible.
BobbyJ: To me they have equal amounts of confidence and desperation, but you don't see groups from big companies out performing for free in the streets.
GD: I'm reminded of the time that Ateez had to like go out on the street after only their dance videos had come out? I don't think they performed but they were trying to get hugs? Why can't I remember this content properly
BobbyJ: That was one of the missions, yes. It was the first fan they’d ever met.
GD: Right, there's something a little romantic in that notion too, I guess. That, if you just go out and do your thing, people will notice it and you can achieve your dreams? It's a very romantic notion that isn't actually true.
BobbyJ: It's very, very rarely true
GD: Right. It ties into the nostalgia aspect, a little
BobbyJ: Rose-colored glasses?
GD: Is that what they would've actually done? Or is he romanticizing the past? Even rivers can have a romantic quality (I'm obviously using romantic in the non romantic way--does that even make sense?)
BobbyJ: I think everything romantic has a dark side
GD: It's actually quite common, isn't it? Romeo and Juliet is considered by many to be a romance. But two kids kill themselves, and that's hardly romantic.
BobbyJ: It's like the kpop industry--or any entertainment industry--what you see on the surface often hides a lot of ugliness
GD: I think what I'm struggling over is the almost golden tone this is written in, and the reality of both the things that Yunho is talking about here. The Han River is beautiful, but it is also dangerous. Street performances are fun, but they imply a lack of other exposure on the artists part.
BobbyJ: It goes back to him being in denial, don't you think? It reminds me of something but I can't put my finger on it. A specific character who is trying to act like everything is Fine when things are not Fine. It's like he's not recognizing the full reality of the situation. But we often don't when we reminisce because are memories are colored by the present
GD: For some reason, I'm reminded of Groundhog Day. I am not sure why, exactly
BobbyJ: It feels like the opposite of what's happening here. Bill Murray has to open his eyes to the good things in life in order to move forward; Yunho only focuses on the good things and is stuck. Except not quite?
GD: Yeah, it's like he wants to keep reliving the day? I'm not sure. But he wants to go back?
BobbyJ: He visits his brother every day. He can't move forward because he can't let go
GD: Interesting that he doesn't just go to the Han River himself, right?
BobbyJ: It wouldn't be the same. Even if he took one of the boys
GD: He goes to see his brother, and reminisces about the Han River. He doesn't go and live his life. Maybe Yunho is stuck repeating the same days. Seeing his brother, going to the warehouse, thinking about the past
BobbyJ: He's living a Groundhog Day
GD: So then, what does it take for him to break free
BobbyJ: He meets Left Eye and sees himself in him? His brother dies again? I think that meeting Left Eye is what prepares him to let go in the end
GD: I need to walk a path. Do we have any evidence that these boys ever go anywhere with each other? Is the only place they see each other and exist together inside the warehouse? We know they go to the museum in Epilogue, but beyond that
BobbyJ: School presumably since that seems to be where some of them meet
GD: I am starting to feel claustrophobic of the warehouse? I'm not sure why, but it suddenly feels very small and closed to me.
BobbyJ: Everything about these first diaries feels very stifling to me. Very Truman Show--like there's nothing beyond what we see
GD: Yes, which is a media that Hongjoong has brought up many, many times. Hmph.
BobbyJ: The fact that the Cromer is a Mayan relic specifically tells me that there is a wide world out there somewhere but I can't see or feel it. Thinking of PD's reaction to Halazia--it's like when I think of the world, I'm looking at it through a prism? Only the warehouse, or wherever the members happen to be, is in focus and everywhere else is a blur
GD: The warehouse reminds me of a specific type of portal fantasy. Like the warehouse itself is in a different world existing outside the time and space of A or Z universe.
BobbyJ: It seems they don't notice that the world is slightly different until they leave. Reminds me of the TARDIS
GD: YES. It is somehow existing outside of the universe they're in; and perhaps that's not necessarily a good thing. I don't like that Yunho doesn't just go to the Han River--that he only thinks about how he could go to the Han River. If the Han River represents change and/or movement, he's not doing it. He's staying still.
BobbyJ: Because he feels like he can't? His only happy place is now the warehouse
GD: Stifling.
BobbyJ: This reminds me of our first bible study--our feelings about the warehouse were a bit different then. Not entirely, but I feel like we've taken a turn
GD: Yes, and I'm reminded of the line about the warehouse in that first one–about how it is "untamed". That is a word I would associate with a river, actually
BobbyJ: Rivers go where they want; they forge a path
GD: And actually, isn't the warehouse the thing that has been tamed? Taking nature and making something unnatural is the real taming. Whereas this river--it still runs freely
BobbyJ: I think that the "tameness" they're referring to in the first diary is about following expectations, in which case, they are breaking with those expectations. But, they also are doing it in a way that they don't appear to be getting anywhere
GD: I agree with you, but I think the word choice is interesting
BobbyJ: Which is why they all quit. Hold on. The first diary says "Right now, it is a moment void of compromises and tameness. It is the moment before we opened that door." How literal do we take that? Is the first entry implying that this moment is literally just before the spin of the cromer? We already know we're not chronological.
GD: well, what door are they talking about? The door to Z, the door to go inside the warehouse, the door to leave the warehouse? I think the answer depends on what door you think they're referring to
BobbyJ: THAT door seems to me to indicate the crossing of worlds
GD: But we know they'd already parted by the time Hongjoong gets the cromer based on the outro of this book, which we haven't read, so I guess we don't know it
BobbyJ: But they reunite when he spins it--which is a whole other rabbit hole
GD: Yes. Well, I have another thought that needs to be thought about this line
BobbyJ: Which line--the one we're actually supposed to be discussing? Lol (Remember when we thought all the other bible studies would be short? How young we were. How naive.)
GD: Yes. Truly we were clowns. But I would like to compare this line, which reads so golden to me, particularly about the outside world, with everyone else who we've read so far that has described the outside world as cold, full of concrete, scattered, tough, etc.
BobbyJ: Because he had a Person to share it with. Like how Hongjoong talks about his living room being warm. Probably should have saved that for mental murder board but I feel like we're too far gone now.
GD: oh you know what that reminds me of: their 1D2N episode recently where Yunho was talking about how the worst thing would be to be alone on the island. He could survive it if only there was someone else with him to share it with.
BobbyJ: Right right right. The Black Bunnies?
GD: Yeah, Yunho in particular seemed to feel very strongly that being lonely would be the worst thing of all. And we see that here--even in this line, where he doesn't want to go to the Han River alone
BobbyJ: Why wouldn't Yunho take Hongjoong? It makes me wonder if he's keeping a lot of his turmoil inside. If the boys actually don't know how much he's suffering because he doesn't want anyone to know. I've mentioned before that I feel like I know very little about Yunho. His character (and a little bit of him) strikes me as a person who can wear a mask when he needs to.
GD: I think that's right. It seems clear that they know his brother died or that something happened to him, but perhaps they don't know what that actually means to Yunho. It also makes me wonder if it was his brother that liked going to the Han River, not him.
BobbyJ: Which reminds me of the conversation about the nature of stars with Hongjoong
GD: Mmmmmm, yes. That what they're showing us isn't what they actually are at the moment?
BobbyJ: Right
GD: God this is the worst, I'm going to have to take us on a tangent again
BobbyJ: Why not
GD: Wooyoung's documentary. A thing that has always struck me is that Hongjoong has often said that Wooyoung is the one who was meant to be a star. That he just has that star quality--he said it in a past interview and he said it again in this documentary. He said that Wooyoung doesn't have to try, and Wooyoung was like, but I try very hard.
BobbyJ: He makes it look effortless which requires a lot of effort
GD: The more effortless something looks, the more effort is required. And I suppose this conversation about 'do they know the real Yunho' reminded me of that idea that Yunho is projecting merely what his brother wanted to this group, and that the group doesn't really know what's underneath.
BobbyJ: In the screenplay, I think that the other members should be more shocked at Yunho's outburst at Left Eye later on. It would be a revelation to them that there's been a lot more brewing under the surface than they realized. And that's why Yunho is one of the main characters
GD: Well now that we've fully gone off the deep end, the next question is what does this remind you of in your own life?
It's funny, the first thing I thought of is that I often think about how nice it would be to go to a snowy mountain resort and sit inside the lobby drinking hot chocolate by the fire place while my husband goes skiing and I just watch out the window. And the reason that is funny to me is because I've never done that. That's not a thing I've ever done, and yet, I have it in my head as strong as if it were a real memory. Also, I hate the snow, and I would probably hate the trip.
BobbyJ: You wouldn't be dealing with snow when you're snug in the lobby
GD: I'm sure I'd get bored though.. I'd probably go to the room and watch tv. Or play on my phone. In my head, it's so romantic and pretty, but I know that the reality would not be that.
BobbyJ: I think a lot of things that are romanticized aren't all they're portrayed as. I mean, obviously. We all know this. But I think of going to the beach which when you really think about it is such a pain.
GD: I guess it makes me wonder if this ever even happened; if it's a real memory or something Yunho has after the fact decided would be nice
BobbyJ: It's possible I suppose but we don't have any real evidence that's the reality in this situation.
GD: No, for sure. Just an interesting reminder about what we know about memories. They are faulty at best and wrong at worst.
BobbyJ: But how would remembering things correctly really serve us, I wonder. If Yunho remembers that actually going to the Han River wasn't that fun for him--does that bring him peace? I'm thinking of The Little Prince now
GD: Memories, like denial, can offer their own sort of protection. Say more.
BobbyJ: For TLP, the stars had meaning not so much because he loved the stars but because somewhere out there was his Rose. The association made them beautiful to him. Similarly, Yunho associates the Han River with his brother. The river now has meaning that it wouldn't have had before. Whether that association is actual or based on a false memory is almost beside the point.
GD: That also gives some nuance to why he doesn't go there alone. It is the place of his brother.
BobbyJ: Right
GD: Maybe it even belongs to his brother
BobbyJ: Another tangent I'm so sorry
GD: truly today is a lost cause, but it's fine. The spirit goes where the spirit wants.
BobbyJ: This poem. An entirely different context, but this idea of places being too strongly associated with certain people.
GD: Interesting and true. An association changes how we feel about certain things, even with all other things the same.
BobbyJ: I am very susceptible to negative associations. Several years ago now, like six or seven I think?, I had to take my cat Neville to be put to sleep. It was a truly horrific experience which I won't get into because I don't feel like crying today. But, afterwards, I refused to engage with any of the things I really like--didn't listen to music, didn't watch any shows I had been watching, I watched some show with Jim Caviezel in it bc I don't care about him and didn't care about that show--because I was so worried about ruining something I really liked with negative associations. It's why I have to be so careful about my fandom experiences. I am truly terrified of Atinys ruining Ateez for me.
GD: This is, I think, somewhat related. But it reminds me of how couples often get divorced after a child dies?
I've talked some about my exchusband before, but when we divorced, I basically stopped talking to all of our old friends that we had together. And it wasn't because they chose him over me; it was genuinely because I didn't want to have to be remembered by anyone as being married to him. I needed all ties cut. The association was too strong. I still like those people, and I have nothing but fond memories of them, but we don't talk.
BobbyJ: I wonder if that's why I stopped talking to all my people from college
GD: I do think that a huge life change, changes who you are. And you have to be given the space to figure out who the new you is, and perhaps you can't do it around the same people who knew you before. When I think of those people, I think to myself, well, they don't even know who I am now. And that's true.
BobbyJ: I think that's very true. So, bringing it back around, I imagine Yunho keeps his memories with his brother very separate from his new memories with Ateez except for music
GD: I think, story wise and with what the words say, that it makes sense that he met (or at least got close to) these people after his brother's death, which allows him to adopt his brother's dream as his own
BobbyJ: Yes, because his brother never met them he says
GD: We have no idea what Yunho pre-his brother's death wanted. And it doesn't really matter.
BobbyJ: And he'll never tell us
GD: Because the old Yunho died with his brother. Well, should we discuss what this is inviting us to do in our own lives? Who could've foreseen such rich content from this quote about visiting the Han River.
BobbyJ: So much of it barely related to the river at all but such is the way of bible study
GD: the spirit of halazia thriving today
BobbyJ: I'm not certain that I'm being invited to do anything. I suppose I could go with something like "go to the Han River instead of the warehouse sometimes" but that doesn't feel honest
GD: I think, weirdly, this line is inviting me to be grateful for the things I have in the present? I started a gratitude journal recently because I felt that I was spending too much time noticing the negative things in my life instead of the nice things. And I was really bothered by the fact that Yunho didn't just go to the Han River and honor his brother that way. So I think the text is inviting me to try to live in the present, noticing the beautiful things as they are, instead of thinking about them in the golden way that I'd like them to be.
BobbyJ: I feel like I understand why he didn't go. Maybe I am also in a place where I'm just not ready to go to my Han River, whatever that may be. And maybe that's okay for now. My "when the time comes" will come
GD: Perhaps the text is inviting you to allow yourself those golden memories. The text can be inviting us to do opposite things. I think that's the nice thing about art and text: each person who looks at it or reads it needs a different thing, and so they will get a different thing
BobbyJ: Maybe that's my secondary thing. I get so annoyed when I see Atinys blatantly misinterpreting the lore and misleading other Atinys who can't work it out on their own. But maybe that's just what they need out of the lore. Maybe there are people out there who need the sirens. And who am I to tell them they can't have the sirens.
GD: Why they'd need sirens is a mystery, but I hear you
BobbyJ: It's not for me to say. I just wish people would learn to think for themselves so I wouldn't have to worry about things becoming canon amongst atinys when they have no basis in the sacred texts
GD: Completely fair and also a little hopeless
03: Mental Murder Board
BobbyJ: did we already cover every possible thing?
GD: I feel like perhaps we did cover most things. We did discuss how light important for HJ, cold for SW. Do we see any similar thing for Yunho?
BobbyJ: Outside of the weird light in the photo, no. His entry does seem to take place at night like HJ and Hwa
GD: I think there is some idea of warmth and heat in Yunho's?
BobbyJ: Weather is clear, it's warm outside
GD: Interesting that he talks about waking up from a hibernation, which happens in the winter and is related to Seonghwa's snowy road, but that it is warm and clear. I don't have much to say on that. but an interesting connection.
BobbyJ: I'll be looking for more wintry connections
04: The Closing Benediction
GD: If we have no other things, we can propose a closing song.
BobbyJ: I have three; trying to narrow it down
GD: The first song that came to my mind was Dazzling Light, so I'm just going to go with that.
BobbyJ: Was that also Hwa's hymn? Oh no--that was Mist
GD: I think Be With You has always reminded me of Yunho and his brother
BobbyJ: BWY is one of my options. My other is Still Here
GD: Still Here is very good too. I'd like to change mine to BWY
BobbyJ: I think Still Here is my official choice. BWY reminds me of PC funerals.
GD: Horrible and upsetting
BobbyJ: Maybe that's actually my third thing--it's time to replace Rocky Yunho. I've tied it all together. This entire conversation.
GD: We've done good work. We've discovered some secrets to the universe, and we will discover more soon.
05:Closing
Please share with us any of your thoughts on Yunho’s page! What’s it inviting you to do? And what does it make you consider?
We will see you next week for Yeosang’s page OR for a special Halazia review; we are undecided. We will see you soon for something.
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