[Note: This series originally started as a project on Reddit, and we are archiving the posts here on our site. You can find the original Bible Study posts here.]
Today, we will start the final page of the Fever Part 1 Diary book. We did this bible study in two parts because we found that we had A Lot of things to discuss when it came to the simple question of 'what is happening on the page?', so we will be back next week with the second part.
Join us as we dive into Z Outro: Into the New World!
01: what are your thoughts on the page?
GD: We have a very tight 2 and half hours we need to work in today, which I think will be fine? Because it's not a member. But maybe that's worse. idk. The good news is we're on the reading practice which for sure takes the longest.
BobbyJ: Excellent. Only good news. I don't have my bible study chai latte but I have remembered to start the playlist.
GD: I'm already feeling destined for disaster; I'm halfway through reading this
BobbyJ: Let the disaster begin
GD: My first thought is wow this really does all come out of nowhere. We've been in a classic coming of age story for 7 weeks, and now we're switching genres a bit.
BobbyJ: It's interesting that he implies they made an active decision to split up. So it wasn't gradual.
But it seems they tried to keep in touch but then gradually faded away from one another. I'm confused about the timing
GD: Are we to assume this is Hongjoong based on the diary film?
BobbyJ: Yes, plus the mention of losing his family
GD: So the line about "our dream of being together have become like shackles holding us down"--that line in particular makes me wonder back to some of the other stuff we've talked about
BobbyJ: Right.
GD: Specifically, Wooyoung wanted to dance and there's talk of big companies, and Yunho wanting to achieve his brothers dream seemingly through music, and Hongjoong wanted to be a star. We know there is overlap in those dreams, but they don't all have to be achieved in the same way, and it feels like this is the fall-out of that. The thinking that the dream of achievement was important instead of the dream of achieving it together. I'm specifically reminded of Wooyoung running back to the warehouse in his diary film
BobbyJ: So you think the core problem wasn't all the pressure but that they weren't trying to stay together hard enough? It's wild that Halajoong jumps from "You decided to give up on your dreams" right to "many dimensions and many realities". It feels as though he's talking about two different things--but what if he isn't? What if one thought does lead right to the next
GD: You'll need to say more
BobbyJ: I would except it's a genuine question to which I do not have an answer
GD: My thoughts are thinking
BobbyJ: Perhaps it's not so much a rapid switch in topic but more like a "you're focusing on the wrong problem!"
GD: What if what halajoong is trying to say is that 'you were blinded by the thought that this is all there is, and that's what made you give up your dreams because you're too focused on all the little things here. but really, there's so much more--more dimensions and different realities--etc.'
BobbyJ: Right right--like these little dreams of stardom are so small compared to what you were destined to do
GD: And also, a little ‘you gave up the most important bit for what? When you already had it all?’ Because I do think an overarching theme of ateez is that being together and doing what you love together trumps everything else
BobbyJ: Yes, the togetherness was the thing. The music was the vehicle
GD: And I think at least some of them lost sight of that–which led to the eventual separation. Each step for their own personal growth and chances at stardom became a step away from each other, instead of walking on that path together.
BobbyJ: I'm thinking about San though. All he really wanted was the togetherness
GD: Was he even there though? His problem was that his parents wanted to move--perhaps they moved him, perhaps the lynch pin of the togetherness wasn't really there to hold them together. We've talked about his problem wasn't really one he could solve.
BobbyJ: That makes me so sad. But it makes sense. And if I were to write out this whole narrative with the details we're lacking that's what I'd do.
GD: We don't know of course--but there's also no reason to think he was there. You know?
BobbyJ: Speaking from experience, typically when your parents tell you you're moving, you have at most a couple months before the time comes
GD: And we had these boys who were... sort of only loosely connected? Yeosang, Mingi, San--they don't ever express a dream for music in the same way that the OG group does, and even Jongho to a lesser extent. The ultimate falling out may have been a question of what the OG group decided to do after everyone else had left.
BobbyJ: Right. I don't see Mingi coming back for a vote after Jongho punches him. And Hongjoong doesn't say they ALL decided, just "we decided"
GD: I feel like as we've read, it's been pretty clear that there was an og group that were working towards a thing. The others drifted in and appeared to want the same thing, but maybe not to the same extent or in the same way? And it always felt like they could drift back out again. In fact, at least Yeosang and Mingi were almost destined to drift back out
BobbyJ: Yeah, Hongjoong, Hwa, Woo and Yunho had no real reason to leave. They didn't have the same pressures the others seemed to face
GD: It's a mystery to me what Hwa decided to do in this intervening time as he left--but in many ways Yunho and Wooyoung leaving Hongjoong makes a lot of sense to me.
BobbyJ: Perhaps he relapsed, became super busy again
GD: It's hard to break bad habits
BobbyJ: Feels like we're going heavy on the conjecture today. But the entry gives us very little to work with. But also so much
GD: There is a lot that is left out to explain how we've gotten here. And for the narrative to make sense, you almost have to offer something. Because our last entry is Jongho being like "oh no this is my dream. I'm dreaming again." And then very suddenly, everyone is like peace, and just leaves Hongjoong alone.
BobbyJ: It's just so unclear how much time has passed.
GD: Either a year or only a couple of months. Yunho's entry has always seemed like the spring to me, but I guess it could just as reasonably be the fall.
BobbyJ: The line "Even if, not often, the promises we made were pushed back day by day and we forgot about each other." It seems to suggest that after the break up they tried to keep in touch somehow? Or am I entirely misinterpreting it. The vibe I get is that everyone became very busy walking down their separate paths once again but meant to get together to catch up
GD: I think that's right. I was just looking at the times of year because this we know happens in the summer.
BobbyJ: Yes. In the first entry he says "It was the moment before we opened that door". But things are fine in the first entry. But if, for instance, a whole year had gone by, would it still be the moment before?
GD: So I decided to bust out papago as one does and see how that line was about the moment before opening the door was translated by a robot.
BobbyJ: I have a few translation questions actually
GD: "This is a moment on the other side of the door, which we have not yet opened, before we make promises of compromise and tameness." Which is mostly the same, but it does make me think that "the other side of the door" is the outside world, which is maybe not how I originally read it. In which case "It was the moment before we opened that door" would mean, as soon as they started trying to go do things in the outside world, that's when everything changed.
BobbyJ: So, the original journal isn't talking about opening the door to other worlds at all? And the compromises and tameness refers to what they would become when they split up.
GD: I think that's a reasonable interpretation?
BobbyJ: Completely changes the foreshadowing
GD: Yes.. I think that's right. They're almost playing with the idea of worlds under this interpretation?
Because Hongjoong is like "our world" and the "adult world" in this first page and Halajoong is like "you dumbass".
BobbyJ: But he's thinking way too small
GD: Right
BobbyJ: That's actually so much more clever than we thought. I don't give the journals enough credit for their subtleties
GD: I think because of various translation inaccuracies and confusing translations, people tend to write them off as being poorly written when that's just simply not true
BobbyJ: It's our fault for not knowing Korean
GD: Absolutely. I also think they're going for a very lyrical and poetic delivery, which makes it even harder to translate and maintain the same poeticness
BobbyJ: Very true.
GD: The translation can come off as almost... corny isn't the word... but like, simple? and sort of obvious? That's also not the right word. But I think if you sit with it and think about it, you can see some of the lovely metaphor and literary elements that don't necessarily jump out when you're just reading the translation through as if it's a story. Anyways, I have two thoughts:
One, did they go back in time when Hongjoong flipped the cromer? I always assumed they went back in time when Yeosang broke the cromer, but did they actually go back in time here before ending up in Strictland. Because the guys don't appear in the warehouse, they open the door and walk in. Which must mean that they are in their own world when Hongjoong flips it and they arrive there. And the only way to explain all of them together at the warehouse is if they went back in time to when they were all together at the warehouse. Otherwise, the cromer has some additional, unexplained powers
BobbyJ: I have long had that same question
GD: Two, I've forgotten my second thought because I got so distracted by my first
BobbyJ: I've always wondered if Ateez are meant to have some special connection to the cromer. Because when they walk in they all seem puzzled which seems to mean that they are all aware something strange has happened. The rest of the members weren't even there when Hongjoong activated. So it seems only they are affected by it. If Hongjoong had traveled back in time by himself to when the other members were all still around, they wouldn't think anything of it. Also what happens to the original timeline if they have traveled to the past? Is Strictland actually an alternate timeline?
GD: Let me just…
We know that when they come back to their world, they come back in the past
BobbyJ: Was it really the past or was it a different timeline? Had the cromer been stolen in the original timeline?
GD: Well we've talked before about what the difference is between alternate timelines and alternate worlds. When they say that there are many worlds and realities, is what they mean that there are many branching timelines? And that basically, it is a oneteez situtation because they are all just different timeline versions of themselves. Have you seen Everything Everywhere All at Once?
BobbyJ: Yes
GD: So, like that. I do plan to rewatch that movie tonight no matter what
BobbyJ: All the time travel stories that make the most sense to me include multiple versions of the mc existing alongside themselves. I just finished reading The 7 1/2 Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle and it's a time loop murder mystery. The mc relives the same day over and over simultaneously to all his other iterations. But with Ateez, when they travel back and forth, there seems to be only Hala and Ateez. Like when they travel to the past and Yunho's brother is alive, what happens to the Yunho that was already there?
GD: Right..
BobbyJ: This is why I like a oneteez theory
GD: I guess my main problem is oneteez or infiniteteez, but twoteez is terrible for the reasons you stated, basically
BobbyJ: Because what I think is that Yunho of the past was away from his brother. Yunho from the future goes to the past and causes the chain reaction that leads to his brother dying
GD: It's not that I hate that. Well I was developing thoughts but I'm instead going to put a pin in Yunho's brother's death so that we can discuss this page
BobbyJ: It makes sense to save it for when it actually happens.
GD: I will say the "puzzled face" makes me think this must be current timeline but that gives me way more questions than.... anything
BobbyJ: Oneteez answers a lot of questions for me in general. But it doesn't answer the question of how the cromer affects Ateez the way it does.
GD: Ah, I remembered my second thought: "follow your heart, the map is there". It's not a thought. It's a sentence. I guess my thought is, map to answer, we should read answer
BobbyJ: We should always read Answer. Answer is the answer. Right now or do a sacred reading?
GD: Perhaps both–I am already pulling it up though
BobbyJ: When can the cromer communicate in dreams?
GD: "Shouting out that the end means the beginning" --that is technically true here. The end was the beginning of their adventure with the cromer. I do not remember the cromers powers because I'm a bad clown
BobbyJ: It's in one of the Fever Road episodes I think. Will google know I wonder. It does not. But apparently it is possible to communicate with someone who is dreaming.
GD: "The scorching sun melted away even our dream of youth" from the book to "the burning sun, and the huge wave, are nothing for us" in answer.
BobbyJ: Oh no if you google "Ateez cromer powers" one of my old very wrong theory posts pops up
GD: Hilarious
BobbyJ: Crescent moon. Okay hold up.
GD: I am fascinated by them using the idea of heat as both a hard and violent thing and a passionate and exciting thing. Sorry I was deep in my sun thoughts. I shall hold
BobbyJ: If the cromer delivers messages during the crescent moon and travels dimensions on the full moon, then how is it doing both at the same time on this page?
GD: Perhaps they went back in time first to a nice date with a full moon and then traveled dimensions. No a lot about the cromer is unexplained here
BobbyJ: Maybe it was a crescent moon in strictland but a full moon in the real world since halajoong is the one who activated it
GD: There is no reason for it to call the rest of the boys together, regardless of anything else, so the whole thing feels like something more is going on than just the cromer
BobbyJ: This is a very interesting game dynamic. Like they would have to travel to a specific moon phase in order to speak through dreams but wouldn't be able to get back until the moon changed again. Or can the cromer always travel through time?
GD: Depends on whether you think time is different than dimensions
BobbyJ: HJ has hinted that the cromer has other powers based on other phases of the moon/eclipses
GD: Perhaps it can always travel through time in the dimension it's currently in
BobbyJ: Have we looked up the state of the moon on July 29, 2016?
GD: I'm almost positive I have and sent you a moon chart but lets do it again: waning crescent
BobbyJ: Yet another reason to work on our PhD presentation. I wonder if the waxing and waning have any effect.
Okay. I can't with the Cromer right now. Let's go back to your thought about the heat
GD: The July full moon happened on the 19th in that year which probably means less than nothing. I had a wild thought that the next comeback would be on May 5th because that's when the full moon in May is, and the 5th is a Friday. but I'm just going to put that thought away. omg there's a lunar eclipse on May 5th too [editor's note: this has all been proven wildly wrong because ATEEZ will be in Japan on May 5th)]
BobbyJ: Where? In Korea?
GD: Apparently it will be completely visible over Asia
BobbyJ: Huh. Would be wild. So they'd have a concert right in the middle of comeback build up
GD: I assumed they would announce the comeback at the concert, and then it would take place end of May, start of June. But you know, they always do insane things
BobbyJ: That's what made the most sense to me. I expected more secret videos and qr shenanigans
GD: And they've definitely performed shows/special things while doing comeback promotions, so it wouldn't be the craziest thing. In some ways, it's good promo? But still feels a little too close.
BobbyJ: This means we should be expecting an announcement in a few weeks
GD: If we don't have an announcement by end of March, I'd say we're good to assume it's not May 5th
But.. truly does a more perfect date exist for them?
BobbyJ: Well, nothing to do but wait and see. Okay back to your fire thought Do they do the same with waves? Are waves ever portrayed as good?
GD: Not waves.. but water maybe? We'd have to peruse the lyrics and bibles more
BobbyJ: Even in Wave, the waves aren't good--they represent trials and struggles, hard times
GD: I just know that when they use fire and water imagery, it's not as if the water is putting out the flames. I'm thinking of Inception and Deja Vu a little bit. But I don't remember them ever saying water=good necessarily
BobbyJ: I'm trying to draw a line from the burning sun to burning passion. Halajoong seems to say that it wasn't their lack of passion that tore them apart--but maybe that their passion wasn't directed at the right things? Or something like passions burning you up from the inside if they have nowhere to go? It's interesting that he mentions that there hadn't been rain
GD: The idea of balance is coming to me
BobbyJ: I don't know if that's just to emphasize how hot it was or if there's something else there
GD: I was thinking about it when I was thinking about them dancing in Inception with the fire above and water below
BobbyJ: Yeah, I was thinking about temperance. Like, the two temper each other?
GD: I have this idea that you need both--and it's taking me back to our earlier conjecture about San, and also something that Hongjoong has said about Wooyoung . For a group to survive, you do have to have a person who cares a lot about the groups survival--a person for whom that is the top priority
BobbyJ: And that was probably San in the story
GD: I feel strongly that he was. Passions can't just go around being untethered; you need that sort of anchor bit. Like, extend it out even. We use water to not just put fires out but to help control them. Water can make the heat bearable. When you have a fever, you're to drink water so you don't die. You need both water and warmth to survive.
BobbyJ: So what does water symbolize? What's the thing that keeps passions in check?
GD: I feel like it's something around togetherness, but I don't quite know. Like, connection? Water connects things?
BobbyJ: Maybe? Like rivers are pathways to other places. Wait I'm remembering something from other bible study. There was something about rivers. Yunho? The Han River?
GD: Yes yes that does sound familiar. Oh! And wooyoung
No, I made up the Wooyoung thing, but yes to Yunho and the Han river
BobbyJ: There's an implication that Wooyoung also performed by the Han River like the others
GD: I think because he talks about "street performance" but that does give some implication that a river is a gathering place.. a place to see other people
BobbyJ: I feel like Tea may have made a relevant comment
GD: Tea, our best congregant. Is congregant a word?
BobbyJ: It is now
Re: the clownery on rivers, I'm reminded of the significant(?) role of a river elsewhere in the lore. "The tears and sweat we shed comes back to a river, and it pulls us to this vast world"1 Which I feel supports the "river is movement, change, and also a symbol of The Outside" thing you have going here. 1 Outro: Over The Horizon 0:22 (gotta source my shit like a real book study right? lol)
GD: Oh shit. A great comment
BobbyJ: I was thinking of water as trials. Tears and sweat leading to the river; the waves are trials that have to be overcome
GD: Interesting
BobbyJ: It makes sense I think? That our passions are tempered when we face struggle.
GD: Other mentions of water: drowning in Jongho's entry, crying in the first entry, arguably snow in Hwa's
BobbyJ: The trials burn away the fluff, the stuff that's not important
GD: Turbulence, waterfall
BobbyJ: Or rather, wash away the fluff, to not mix my metaphors. I wonder how this works with my color algebra. I will not attempt to figure out right now
GD: What did we say blue was?
BobbyJ: We didn't know. That's where the algebra came in
GD: We said blue was hope, according to our conversation
BobbyJ: So we basically didn't know
GD: Not hope. We said longing. Blue was longing
BobbyJ: Hmm. I would like to put pins in both those things
GD: Yes. The movement of water, and the idea that water is connecting them back to the rest of the world, does work with the idea that perhaps water has both a good and bad role to play in their imagery just like the idea that the sun does. Temperance, as you said, which means I think we should continue to look for references to both. In the future, not now.
BobbyJ: I have one last question for now. He says "I fell asleep in the hideout where no one was looking for him" Is that meant to say no one was looking for me? As in actually I'm all alone and there was no man in a mask here talking to me?
GD: I think it does mean "me", like a "no one ever looks for me, I am alone, it was wishful thinking that someone would be talking to me." So like a way to highlight his aloneness. Because the next sentence talks about his lonely heart. It's hard to come to what else him could be referring to. I guess halajoong said that he didn't have much time--so maybe it could be saying that there was no one else there looking for halajoong--but that seems wrong to me.
BobbyJ: Yeah, it doesn't quite make sense. Unless it's like "was anyone else here to see that?" but still feels off
GD: It would be a strange thing for Hongjoong to think unless it's somehow wishful thinking? Like, he momentarily forgets he's alone in the warehouse--just like we have Wooyoung sort of momentarily forget there's no one waiting for him int he warehouse--and is like, oh no, it's just me no one else sees this. I still don't think that's right though.
But a thought just occurred to me: Wooyoung must've only metaphorically run back to the warehouse that day (which is what I thought then too) because I don't think Hongjoong ever left.I think if something hadn't dragged Hongjoong out of warehouse, he'd still be sitting in there basking in his aloneness, which is fascinating. He seems the one most deflated from the prior entry.Like, he had one of the strongest internal motivations at the start, and he's now very sulky and alone, and I do believe he'd stay in the warehouse alone
BobbyJ: I'm just filling in some narrative gaps. Yeo claims that his father kicked them out of the warehouse. So, perhaps he's the one who chained up the doors. But it's an old warehouse, there have to be other entrances for Hongjoong to slip into. It's possible that Woo does come running back but is deterred by the chained doors not knowing that Hongjoong is still inside
GD: But they're all able to just walk in in this entry, no chains to be found? Which is odd. Unless we're to assume Hongjoong eventually removed the chains
BobbyJ: Or they did all travel back in time
GD: I think they traveled back in time. And that would be confusing so they would have puzzled looks. I don't know that I believe it strongly and am ready to fight for time travel. But I do lean more towards it than other explanations of how they all came to be here
BobbyJ: Time travel doesn't even explain how they are all summoned. We know in the future Yeo gets left behind by the cromer. So. . . idk
GD: They'd have to basically snap back into their bodies and retain their memories? I also don't know
BobbyJ: These are the questions Hongjoong should have been answering in his Q&A
GD: I sent all of these questions to him but he was busy giving me rudimentary details I could've found on my own.
BobbyJ: I firmly believe he didn't answer any actual Atiny questions. No Atiny in their right mind would actually wonder if Ateez and Halateez have similar positions
GD: Well I didn't need him, anyways. I needed the intern to answer my questions. When will they let her give her lore chat?
BobbyJ: We've finally gotten an acknowledgement of her existence. baby steps I guess
We will be back next week to finish off our discussion of the Fever Diary 1! Let us know what you think about this page or how the narrative is coming together thus far.
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