[Note: This series originally started as a project on Reddit, and we are archiving the posts here on our site. You can find the original Bible Study posts here.]
After a two week break attempting to discover the meaning of life through Halazia, we are back with the first Diary Bible Study of the Fever Part 2 Diary.
Today we will be looking at both the intro and Hongjoong's page, and as has become customary, we will be dividing this bible study into two parts, the second of which will come out next week. For now, please read along with us as we attempt to reach Enlightenment through the Diary books.
01: what are your thoughts on the page?
GD: While I was in LA, I didn't get to listen to ateez like a single time, and I found that my soul suffered. On the car ride home from the airport, I literally could feel myself being soothed. Which is my way of reminding you to put on the bible study playlist
BobbyJ: Lol--I had of course forgotten
GD: I'm going to read this all the way through again, and then shall we start with our thoughts on the page? By all the way through, I meant the intro and Hongjoong's page
BobbyJ: Yes. Do we plan to restart the cycle or pick up from where we left off? We did the reading practice last
GD: Hmmm a good question. I suppose I think we should continue on where we left off because otherwise we will always start and end with a reading practice. The nature of 10 pages.
BobbyJ: Sounds good. I'm very curious to see where the discussion leads us because at first read, there's not a lot to dig into I feel
GD: I'm going to start right off the bat with saying I don't understand the "I received the cromer from Yunho." Unless they've skipped forward past the part where they all passed the cromer around and exclaimed how cool and weird it was, I don't understand why Hongjoong doesn't have the cromer that he received from halaJoong
BobbyJ: He literally says "to see the Cromer in my hand". Twice he says the Cromer is in his hand
GD: The very first line even. "The cromer flashed in my hands.” Unless we are actually to assume the intro is Yunho, but that would be a wild assumption
BobbyJ: Is “received” mistranslated?
GD: I shall explore some robot translators
BobbyJ: Because it would make sense if he passed the cromer to Yunho
GD: Papago just adds more confusion. It makes it sound like Yunho could've been the one who threw the glass and distracted the android guardian, but still that Hongjoong received the cromer from Yunho
"After receiving the Cromer from Yunho, he started provoking the giant. "I'll give you the cromer," he cried, and threw what he had in his hands through the window. All the members watching from behind were shocked."
BobbyJ: What about the line right before?
GD: Google makes no sense what-so-ever, so I will pretend it doesn't exist
BobbyJ: Because tricking the guardians with glass absolutely feels like a Yunho thing, not a Hongjoong thing
GD: "Then, a broken piece of glass caught my eye under my foot." It's basically the same. I still think you could read it like Yunho picked up the glass and Hongjoong was in on it but nothing helps explain to me why in the world Yunho was holding the cromer in the first place
BobbyJ: At the start of Hongjoong's entry, he says "white-clad giants are out for the Cromer in OUR hands" which I interpret as more figurative, but the switch from my to our sticks out to me
GD: I have a Thought. I'm overlaying a lot of what happened in the diary film to my interpretation of this text, which, is possibly not accurate?
BobbyJ: Well, Diary Film doesn't cover pt. 2 at all. But why not
GD: In the film, they are all standing very far away from each other in almost a circle when the cromer brings them there? Perhaps it was more of an all brought to the actual cromer situation. Like if they're standing closer together in a tight little grouping, perhaps its like, Yunho pushed the cromer towards Hongjoong away from the center of the group, forcing Hongjoong to take control as the leader. Which he is
BobbyJ: I did not follow that
GD: I shall try again
BobbyJ: You lost me at "all brought to the cromer"
GD: Like, If they were all brought within arms reach of the cromer--in like a tighter circle than I'd been picturing in my head, like in an 8 makes 1 team sized circle
BobbyJ: So, contrary to what we see in the Diary Film?
GD: Right. I have always pictured it happening exactly as it did in the diary film
BobbyJ: My issue is that everything feels very instantaneous.
GD: But I'm wondering if that was partially because it would look very silly visually for them to be brought together in a tight circle. I agree about the instantaneous
BobbyJ: It's like the MVs--things are mostly symbolic
GD: So here's my theory that I'm going to have to go forward with to make it make sense for myself. When they were all brought together, they were brought together within arm's reach of the cromer, which was held out away from Hongjoong since he'd just received it from someone else. And perhaps in their shock, some of them--Yunho specifically--reached out to touch it or get a better look. But then things start to implode and they're being chased, and Yunho pushes the Cromer away from everyone else into Hongjoong's chest, basically saying 'we follow you'.
BobbyJ: My issue is that there's no time for Hongjoong to explain. Like, I suppose it's logical to assume that the weird random thing your friend is holding that he doesn't normally have is the reason you've been magically summoned to an alternate universe. But "What's that weird thing you have" would be maybe 3rd or 4th on my list of questions
GD: Perhaps Hongjoong was staring at it in awe?
BobbyJ: It did flash. Maybe everyone saw it? It makes total sense that if they have time, they would all be curious and want to mess around with it--it's a miracle they didn't accidentally trigger it again
GD: Or maybe Hongjoong is still just sort of standing there holding the cromer out vaguely and Yunho does the same thing--pushes it towards him and is like 'let's go buddy.’ The fact that it's Yunho that's mentioned feels important regardless of why in the world he has the cromer when Hongjoong is supposed to
BobbyJ: So one of the notes I have here at the beginning of pt. 2 is "Hongjoong isn't a great leader.” And if that is true, it makes sense that he wouldn't naturally just step up and take over. Someone would have to shove him along his path
GD: In the first diary... it didn't necessarily seem like they have a group leader? But Yunho specifically has said that Hongjoong reminds him of his brother, and it would make absolute sense for Yunho to choose to follow him in a crisis
BobbyJ: They wouldn't necessarily need a leader if they're just dancing boys hanging out and having dreams
GD: I do feel like it's some sort of passing of the baton symbolism. Yunho basically telling him--it's you we're going to follow so do something
BobbyJ: Maybe Hongjoong not being a leader is part of the reason they fell apart
GD: The lack of leader would make sense for a failing. Sadly, someone has to lead.
BobbyJ: Which reminds me of when Hongjoong said he was moving and Yunho cried in the bathroom (at this point I don't know if that's even true or just Atiny lore).
GD: I was thinking of the exact same thing though.
BobbyJ: How familiar are you with The Outsiders?
GD: Only a little familiar
BobbyJ: Because I have to relate everything back to teaching. . .
So, we're reading it right now. You have the Greasers and the Socs, the poor kids vs. the rich entitled kids. Among the greasers there are different gangs that operate at varying levels of organization
Right before the big rumble, Ponyboy talks about the other greaser gangs, how they have leaders and a sort of hierarchy. He says that in their gang, they don't have a leader; every boy does his own thing. And Pony thinks that everyone leading himself is what makes his gang stronger than the others (because they always win fights)
I don't know that I have a point--just that's where my brain took me. I don't think it's necessarily true though because Pony's gang kinda falls apart as a gang
GD: I guess I'm thinking... as long as what everyone wanted was basically the same, not having a leader would be fine? But the moment that starts to change... it would sort of fall apart
BobbyJ: But we've talked about it--we don't know that all of Ateez wanted the same thing. They certainly weren't all on the same page
GD: We talked a little bit about how you have to have someone for who the thing that is important is the togetherness--it's possible that it's not just enough to have that person if there isn't a sort of leader for who the togetherness is important
I definitely have some friends who want the togetherness, but don't actually know how to make things happen, and if someone didn't step up... well then, it would still just not all come together in the end
BobbyJ: I'm thinking about group positions
GD: Same. I'm also thinking about San
BobbyJ: It makes sense to me to have people who "specialize" in different areas. And also someone who keeps everyone moving in the same direction. In spite of how people keep talking about how positions are useless and whatnot
GD: We sort of assume that San is the one for who the group is the most important, but even if San could stick around, he hasn't had the ability to stick around and learn the skills required to keep a group of friends together
So I guess I'm thinking in your Pony example, perhaps they are individually stronger, but does a group of individually strong people make a group that can last as a group?
BobbyJ: Based on the book, no. A soft no. Probably not
GD: The nature of a group is that some things are give and take. There is sacrifice for the good of the group. A concept that twitter atinys perhaps don't understand.
BobbyJ: No, definitely not. I'm also thinking of what we were talking about earlier--and the group has to be worth sacrificing for
GD: But a person who forces their will on a whole group is just as useless in a group as someone who only cares about their own success in the group. Groups have to worry about the whole group. Yes. I was thinking about how I went to wrestlemania this past weekend lol
BobbyJ: I hope your friends are fully aware of the sacrifice you made, lol
GD: I did not necessarily want to go to wrestlemania, and I didn't have a lot of fun while there, but I was on a group trip with people who were excited about the experience and had a fantastic time. So even afterwards as we were all talking, I focused on the parts I did enjoy and just didn't mention the rest. A sacrifice. But at the same time, they went to the xikers pop-up event and Barnes and Noble to get xikers albums. Plus they traveled there to go to my friend's book release party. So we all did things for each other on the trip.
BobbyJ: All I'll say is some of those things do not sound nearly as terrible as some other things
GD: 😂
BobbyJ: I had a thought which I have lost. But I think it was super tangential
GD: I'm not even really sure I had a point. It was something like you do need a leader, or at least someone with the skill and enthusiasm to keep a group together
[At this Point Bible Study devolves into a short series of soapbox sermons on the evils of twitter]
GD: I don't know how we got here or how to get back to this diary
BobbyJ: Hold on, I can do it. . .
Twitter is what happens when you don't have a leader.
Yunho, and perhaps the rest of Ateez inherently realize that in this new wild situation they find themselves in, they need someone to step up. And Yunho sees that leadership quality in Hongjoong that I don't think Hongjoong has recognized in himself yet.
GD: I think it helps that Yunho and Hongjoong appear to have known each other the longest, and that Hongjoong reminds him of his brother. But this is a good thing for us to track as we work our way through this book–Hongjoong's growing leadership skills. Because this is his first test
BobbyJ: Was Yunho's brother older?
GD: I believe so but I'm not confident
BobbyJ: It doesn't say
GD: I want to talk quickly about Hongjoong's first paragraph? He says that basically 'what's important is that we can't get home without the cromer' so at this point, his motivation is to get back to where he's supposed to be, which means he has to protect the cromer. But I would like to point out that 'where he's supposed to be' is actually quite shitty. He was very depressed before this happened.
BobbyJ: But isn't that our default? We want the familiar. Hongjoong's given himself all of two seconds to decide this new place is a big Nope
GD: Right, I do think it makes sense in this situation. But as we track Hongjoong more in the story, we know he'll have a change of a heart in some ways
BobbyJ: It is interesting that he takes it upon himself to protect the members. Budding leadership qualities
GD: The family he once lost--he doesn't want to lose them again. He's lost two families--and he can't lose his found family for a second time
BobbyJ: Right. And to him, protecting them also means getting them back home. In spite of the mess they left behind. Who's to say if they go back they won't end up right back where they left off
GD: Maybe in some ways he also considers this his second chance with the members? If he can protect them here, then he can keep them together when they get home
BobbyJ: Maybe. I also think that he's still thinking too small. He's not fully grasping what Halajoong told him
He doesn't realize that this new world IS his second chance
GD: He even says it doesn't matter--it doesn't matter to him if this is a different world or dimension which is interesting. It implies that the only thing that does matter is making sure he can protect his members
BobbyJ: Right. But protecting his members is just the first step that will lead him to wanting to liberate a whole. . . country? Nation?
GD: World? impossible to know how big Strictland is. Or how small too. It feels huge, but it could be even just a city
BobbyJ: Which begs the question, why is it so important?
GD: It's certainly not to Hongjoong at this point, so I look forward to finding the switch
BobbyJ: But it is to Halajoong--who knows things that we don't
GD: I think it's interesting that, perhaps even if ateez had never come to this world, Z would've sent people to their world anyways? Maybe? I suppose that's for Epilogue bible study
BobbyJ: I don't know. Speaking of Z–I need to talk about the guardians
GD: Ah yes, there's a line
BobbyJ: Ages ago--last year I think--when I was deep-diving into the diaries and writing a whole thing, I had a section titled "Strictland Needs Better Security"
I scrapped it, eventually, in favor of the Hero's Journey thing that I posted, but I stand by my title. Do the guardians seem kind of. . . dumb? Like their tech isn't quite fully developed? They strike me as lumbering meatheads who can't differentiate between a magical time traveling device and a piece of broken glass
GD: Okay, I have a couple of thoughts. "They did not feel like people" is the phrase we're given
BobbyJ: Right. Which I interpret as Hongjoong not knowing what he's dealing with yet
GD: Yes--we've had a lot of discussions about whether they are really androids. We, as in, you and I
BobbyJ: Interesting that he keeps calling them "giants"
GD: I think the way they're described makes them sound so different from our ateez, but... all people under the control of Z would be described that way, wouldn't they? What makes people people if not the emotions that they feel?
BobbyJ: Have I already talked about robots v androids v cyborgs?
GD: Probably, but I don't remember. So feel free to refresh
BobbyJ: It was a rabbit hole I went down with my yearbook staff several years ago bc we didn't know the difference
GD: On the giants, most security detail is giant sized--like you always hire the biggest and scariest security because their physical presence is a deterrent
BobbyJ: Robots are fully mechanical, inside and out. Cyborgs are humans with mechanical/robotic elements, like replaced limbs, augmentations, etc. Androids are fully robot with a human shell.
So, if the androids are just humans with removed emotions, it doesn't make sense to call them androids. Unless--people don't realize that they're human on the inside as well. There is the part about the androids being drunk which really doesn't support the actual android argument. But I don't know why they'd need to call them androids at all. Like, how does it serve the plot if Ateez are being hunted by machines rather than people?
GD: It reminds me a little bit of stormtroopers? Perhaps Android is a compliment of sorts? Reaching a level of lack of emotions that they're like androids. I do think an android is going to join the cause and betray strictland, and I don't even remember why I developed that theory, but I did, and so I will stick with it.
The lyrics of Cyberpunk have always made me feel like they're trying to describe everyone in Strictland as being like an android
I can't feel anything in this place, full of lies This is a frozen night whеre everyone is asleep I wanna feel alive (Ooh) Don't wanna stay in the dark (Ah) This place where no one will be sad is full of lies A night when no one smiles, this is a frozen night I wanna feel alive (Ooh) Don't wanna stay in the dark
BobbyJ: I feel like that theory came from a concert VCR if I remember correctly. Or perhaps I'm making things up
GD: That sounds right
BobbyJ: Back to the stormtroopers. They go through "conditioning" which could parallel the removal of emotions
GD: I always thought stormtroopers were robots until that movie with Finn. Like genuinely thought they were meant to not be human, but perhaps that's just showing my lack of star wars knowledge
BobbyJ: I think Finn is the first stormtrooper we ever see unmasked. Which I think was intentional
And this is the very abrupt end to our thoughts on what's happening on the page! Next week we will dive deeper and explore what it all means. Feel free to share your thoughts on the page. Also, next week, we are doing the reading practice where we pick a line and write our sermon if you'd like to practice along!
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