[Note: This series originally started as a project on Reddit, and we are archiving the posts here on our site. You can find the original Bible Study posts here.]
Welcome back for part 2 of our look at the Intro & Hongjoong's page in the second Fever Diary. You can review the first half of our discussion here.
BobbyJ: Okay. I will try not to be grumpy [Editor’s Note: I was dealing with car repairs for context on the grumpiness.]
GD: I feel grumpiness is fine. Another window to the secrets of the universe.
The last thing we discussed was whether the android guardians are like stormtroopers. Do we want to continue with further thoughts on the page? Or should we ADD A NEW PART pre sacred practice and tie the page to our quarterly theme? [Editor’s Note: I entirely missed this at the time and ignored this comment completely. So, spoilers, we did not add a new part to tie in with our quarterly themes, but we will next time.]
BobbyJ: I'm re-reading bc I don't remember a single thing that was said
GD: The trouble with not doing it in one sitting. I am a different person than I was when we did this the first time. Now I know what is in World's diary. [Another Editor's Note: we read the World diary again on a whim and realized we'd forgotten the whole thing in the almost year since it had came out. Did you know they talk about mirrors and the layout of the world? Anyways.]
BobbyJ: Yes, we are in a post-TWM Diary world now
GD: Okay, where shall we begin?
BobbyJ: Do we have further Thoughts?
GD: I do not have further thoughts, no.
02: sacred practice
GD: Okay, I'm going to get 2 random numbers for my own personal bliss. So, one for the columns on the page, and then one for the line. Column 2 (Hongjoong)
BobbyJ: It's going to be something wild. I can feel it
GD: Line 3, which I will interpret as
"What matters now is that those dangerous white-clad giants are out for the Cromer in our hands and that we cannot get back home if we lose the Cromer."
It's a long sentence, so it spans several lines
BobbyJ: Alrighty. Back in 10
[Ten minutes of sacred writing practice later. . . ]
GD: Well. I've had a lot of thoughts
BobbyJ: I had thoughts but no real point. I think it's my turn to go first?
GD: Do we ever have a point? Excellent.
Bobby J's Sacred Writing:
First of all, I keep getting caught on “giants.” I wonder if they’re just really tall or if they are actually meant to be giants. Clearly they are supposed to be intimidating. They haven’t really done anything yet, but Hongjoong already says that they’re dangerous. Based, too, on how they are pictured in the MVs, they don’t have faces, yet Hongjoong knows that they are after the Cromer. I suppose that’s a logical assumption? Secondly–and I know we already talked about this a little–Hongjoong’s first concern is that they need the Cromer just to get back home. This is a natural reaction of course whenever we find ourselves in foreign situations. We immediately want to get back to our comfort zone. I know this is why I struggle with change, even changes that I want and seek out make me uncomfortable and my first instinct is to go back to where I was. Sure, where I was wasn’t great, but it was familiar. However, Hongjoong doesn’t yet realize that he needs to move forward in order to keep his group together. It really is fascinating to me that the key to keep their group together was actually to stop focusing on that and turn their attention to a much bigger problem that was far beyond what they had dealt with in their own world. If the thing that Strictland needs is people who are passionate about art and music and performance, then Ateez have been preparing for this adventure without realizing it. That makes me think about how oftentimes we learn things and grow in ways that we don’t realize until suddenly those skills or abilities become necessary in unexpected ways. Ateez thought they were just preparing to perform for people–they had no idea they were needed to liberate a whole world. I always get frustrated when the mentor character refuses to fully spill the beans, but I wonder, if Halajoong had been upfront and honest with Hongjoong about what he needed from him–what would Hongjoong’s reaction have been? I feel confident he would have said No, there’s no way we can fight a whole revolution. We’re just kids trying to dance and sing. I guess the only way to get Hongjoong where he needed to be was to basically trick him into it.
GD: I touch a lot on Hongjoong wanting to go home too, but I didn't consider the point about the mentor. It's true, right? There's no way the Hongjoong of this moment would've said yes to this. But this Hongjoong does know how important music and art is--and the group as a whole knows that too.
I'm choosing to not have thoughts on the white-clad giants because I can't help but note they don't use the word android guardians, and they also don't use the word android in TWM diary, so I will fall quickly down an android, not android rabbit hole.
BobbyJ: I do think there's a difference between Guardians and Android Guardians. I think Guardians are people employed by Z. The Androids were created specifically to combat the use of the Cromer.
GD: So where do the white clad giants fit into that?
BobbyJ: Where the Androids have gone, I cannot say. Unless we are to believe they were defeated in the Battle for Yeo. The giants are the androids
GD: I hate it here. This is like one of those things that my brain just refuses. Despite making complete sense
BobbyJ: Here's my interpretation:
The giants are the androids who are specially built for going after the Cromer. They are "giant" bc they're robots and can be made however you want. The Guardians are just people who have been conditioned (emotions removed) and are the regular security force. Not giants.
GD: Do you think they dress similarly?
BobbyJ: Yes. Maybe
GD: Like in the Answer MV is it a Guardian or an Android Guardian?
BobbyJ: I need to rewatch the TWM trailer
GD: Well hold on, I'm going to send my thing lol
GD's Sacred Writing:
Well. We sort of talked about this line a bit when we were discussing the page. There are a couple of things that stick out to me. One, the use of the word ‘our’. Two, that they want to get back home. Our does imply that they all are somehow holding on to the Cromer at the same time, which would make sense with the later line that Yunho gives the Cromer to Hongjoong. But, I guess the part that I am stuck on is the commitment to get back home. We know that Hongjoong was pretty unhappy and lonely at home prior to this moment. It’s basically the last thing we see in the Fever Part 1 Diary. And there’s a sense that he could just be running back to what’s familiar, but I guess the thing that I’m thinking is maybe he wants to run back because he assumes the other members are happy in their homes that they’ve made. If they all went their separate ways pursuing their dreams on their own, and they haven’t had much contact with each other, there’s no reason for Hongjoong to assume that the members aren’t exactly where they want to be at ‘home’. As far as Hongjoong knows, all of the members were happy and doing what they wanted without him. So it also strikes me that Hongjoong may feel as though this is his fault? He was approached with the Cromer, and he turns it–so perhaps this is his “I need to fix what I’ve broken” moment. Whether or not Hongjoong has any personal desire or need to get home, he would take care of his friends and get them back to where they should be. The more I think about it, I feel it’s a little complicated to be the leader and making decisions for the group. They needed a strong leader to keep them together, which maybe Hongjoong wasn’t, but at the same time, how could Hongjoong know that being together was what was best for everyone? It takes a strong strength of conviction to tell people ‘no, going your own way isn’t what’s best for you–we need to stick together.’ And even if Hongjoong had said that to the group, would they have listened to them? You have to be a good leader, but you also have to have been chosen to lead if you really want people to follow you. At this point–had ATEEZ chosen him? Did they have any reason to choose him?
Now you can watch whatever. There appears to be security forces just dressed in normal black with guns?
BobbyJ: Okay, so no. The white guys are androids and according to the Answer:OtJ stage were defeated?
I think it makes sense that Hongjoong wouldn't know that everyone else was still miserable (we assume?) even after breaking up. We really don't know that they had shared with each other what they were all really after, if that makes sense. It doesn't seem that Yeosang has said much about his family situation to the others, for instance.
GD: Right, and I think at least part of being able to have a good, strong leader is honesty. Like if they're not all honest with each other about what they're doing, it makes sense that there is no one to lead them to what they want. Because they don't really know what they want
BobbyJ: Yeah, most of them don't say in words "I want this thing.” You have to read between the lines
GD: But in this moment, Hongjoong makes an assumption that what the others want is to go home, and so he acts to make it happen, which is... pretty cool of him. He's a generally cool dude
BobbyJ: The members probably DO want to go home. They have no idea what's happening. All they know of this new place is white giants coming after them. Home seems pretty good in comparison
GD: Yes, there's definitely no reason to want to stay there
BobbyJ: He's working off of the information he has. He's doing what's best not having the full picture--which is not his fault. So I think we're starting to see why he eventually becomes the leader--even though he's never recognized as such in the Fever diaries. But you mentioned the others not having really chosen him yet--and I think that's mostly true. I think Yunho talks specifically about how he looks up to Hongjoong both as his own person and as someone who reminds him of his brother.
GD: This brings up something that I'm very interested in: the captain armband of Fever. When did it make its first appearance again?
BobbyJ: Part 2
GD: Was it during Kingdom/Fever Part2? Well. That makes very good sense w/ what we have right here
BobbyJ: Okay. Yes. Armband confirmed. Shows up in Pt. 2. And they had that special captain promo for Fireworks as well
GD: Okay, yes, that makes perfect sense with the diaries. Which... I never realized before? So shame on me
BobbyJ: We're seeing him start to act as a captain though he hasn't been acknowledged as captain yet
Thing is though--and this is getting ahead--after this entry, Hongjoong really fades into the background of the narrative
GD: Yes. But perhaps that's because this is his moment? This is the relevant choice he makes--to be the leader, and now we need to focus on what's happening other places for other boys
BobbyJ: I don't even think he's choosing to be the leader though. He's just doing what he sees he needs to do--which is a quality of a leader
GD: I suppose the choice is more like "save his friends", but I still think that's really the only relevant choice he makes. He takes a positive forward step in his journey, and we will perhaps circle back around to him later. I am just not convinced his character journey needs as much development as some of the others. He was a motivated person with goals from the start, he had a setback, and now he's acting with forward movement again whereas someone like Yeosang and Yunho have a lot more character stuff going on--they started in a more precarious place than Hongjoong. Though as I say it, Hongjoong's goals were a little sus at the start, and we know his motivations have to change
BobbyJ: You could say the same for some of our other leaders--like Hwa and Woo. They had already experienced growth before all of this. I'd say Wooyoung seems to really thrive throughout the Fever Diaries. Hwa a little less so simply because he's somehow not a major player in the story
GD: Right, and it does seem that the Diaries are focusing on the members who had the most growing to do from their beginning place.
One could argue, and perhaps I will, that Hongjoong has achieved the reason for his beginning goal already, and he realized it in the last entry of Fever 1, so this is him acting on his new understanding of his goals
Because he started all of this to get his family back and have them notice him.. well, here's his family, and they've noticed him. Did he become a star? No. But did he technically achieve his goal? Maybe.
BobbyJ: Well, if the stardom was meant to be a vehicle to regain his family, is the stardom still necessary?
Maybe losing everyone again made him realize that wasn't really what he wanted. He wanted the music and he wanted the people. And he had achieved that--but not in a permanent way. So now he needs to get them back and keep them together this time.
GD: Right, exactly. In which case, if he's achieved his character growth--his internal story is sort of over? And now we need to focus on the ones who haven't
BobbyJ: I think he still has growing to do to become the leader he needs to be to lead a whole revolution and I would argue I don't see as much of that process as I would like, but I do feel that in the limited space of the diaries, it makes sense to focus on bringing the rest of the members up to par, so to speak
This is why we need a graphic novel @ KQ
GD: Well, I feel like we're missing a lot from Fever to World, like a whole training montage. Which is maybe Rocky and Limitless
BobbyJ: Yeah, Rocky and Limitless aren't covering the whole story
GD: Perhaps Halazia gives us some insight on this--but it's so open to interpretation, and honestly, Hongjoong doesn't stick out as the leader there either
BobbyJ: Look at how they make Yunho more of the center. What was that about??
GD: Mingi's raps are about leading in some ways? But Hongjoong's rap is more... overwhelmed? IDK how to describe his rap, but I wouldn't say it's about leading. And we also know that Spin Off is not from their perspective--perhaps Yunho was the leader of hala
BobbyJ: Then why is he not the one handing off the cromer to Hongjoong?
GD: We only know that he's not if we take the diary film at face value. The diary itself just says someone with familiar eyes hands it to Hongjoong
BobbyJ: We also don't know that Halazia is supposed to be Halateez. That's very much open to interpretation--and I don't tend to interpret it that way
GD: To be clear, I don't think it's halateez. I think it's the people interpreting ateez as halateez, so like trying to place halateez on top of ateez. And so if it's the people telling the story, and they believe that Yunho was the leader of halateez, they may still look to Yunho as the leader of Ateez.
BobbyJ: It's possible. As much as so many other things are possible
GD: Intermingling? I'm trying to think of the word I'm looking for and I can't. Like, taking what they know of halateez and placing it on top of ateez, which Ateez are rejecting. Words are hard.
Anyways, should we go to the next step whatever that is
BobbyJ: Is it mental murder board time?
GD: Yes
03: mental murder board
BobbyJ: I'm thinking about Take Me Home, why it makes sense on this particular album
GD: Ah, yes. I often think about the choreo of take me home and the mirrors
BobbyJ: Yes, I watched the dvd earlier this week and was thinking about those mirrors. Also, like I think I said, why San is framed as the main character of that choreo
GD: We know that mirrors become truly relevant in TWM, but I guess the thing that I think about with regards to this album and the song and where they are in the story is that they too need to figure out who they are.
They haven't been linked to Z's link, but they have sort of been blind to what they want and how they want to get it? So I guess I'm wondering if Home is not a literal home as much as a metaphorical place within themselves--their true selves
BobbyJ: Yes--but I see Z's link and Strictland in general as an exaggerated version of the world they came from. So, they haven't found their homes, in a way
GD: I agree--or perhaps even the first steps on the way to Z's Strictland? If you're living in a oneteez world
BobbyJ: I live in a oneteez world primarily because of Yeo's drone, but we'll save that for later
I do also interpret Home as Utopia. It's not a real place, so to speak, but it's an ideal of state of being that they've dreamed of but can't find. And perhaps they don't realize that simply finding yourself and sort of fully inhabiting the person that you are is a utopia. What a wild sentence but I don't know how else to explain
GD: I agree with you, though. Like, discovering your true self and being your true self is being at home
BobbyJ: Yes. In spite of what your outward circumstances are. Because there is no perfect
GD: And there is no true utopia.
On the mental murder board, the relationship between Yunho and Hongjoong still continues to be noteworthy and important as compared to some of the other relationships
BobbyJ: I've had an epiphany. The sort of epiphany that I feel I need to write down and seal in an envelope for later. But I think I know why Halateez disappears
GD: Well write it down here so I can share in it
BobbyJ: It's not fully thought through because time travel is ridiculous. But I think it may have something to do with Halateez setting events into motion (bringing Ateez to Strictland) that creates a timeline where they are no longer needed, or no longer come to be in the future
GD: Yes, they've caused themselves to not exist. Like a Marty McFly
BobbyJ: What I was thinking
GD: Any other thoughts, or should we pick a closing song and prayer?
BobbyJ: Anything else to say about Yunho and Hongjoong since I derailed your thought?
GD: Not really? Just that it continues to be notable. They were also the first KQ trainees? Which may or may not be relevant
BobbyJ: We've seen irl elements be incorporated into the lore, so it's not farfetched to think it's connected
GD: We've gotten a lot of information about irl Hwa backing Hongjoong as the leader, but I guess I think it seems like Yunho has also always been behind Hongjoong and it's reflected in the diary as well. I think Yunho even described himself as like the first mate? Who enacts the things said by the captain? Ah, he called himself the officer
BobbyJ: I don't know what that means
GD: I'd have to go get that heavy book out. But he was asked his role in ATEEZ, and he said he's the officer who makes sure the things that captain says get enacted
BobbyJ: Need to brush up on my ship positions. Oh--the Hidden Maps?
GD: Yes
BobbyJ: He says:
"I'm the officer. Captain Hong Joong gives us instructions, and I turn the wheel towards the direction we should go. I go here to help someone making the best decision, then I go there to help the other members. I want to be a reliable person who could give strength to the members."
GD: Well, what a good boy
BobbyJ: People don't give Yunho enough credit. As a human.
04: closing
GD: Should we share a hymn this time? Alternate?
BobbyJ: I think we should either agree or alternate. Do you have a hymn thought?
GD: Well Take Me Home does feel appropriate, but have we already used that?
BobbyJ: We have not. I was thinking TMH but was also wondering if there was something to encourage Hongjoong's growth as a baby leader. I mean, The Leaders is right there. But doesn't feel right. I'm saving it for later
GD: Let me think for a second.
Ah, what about Limitless?
BobbyJ: I think that's the one
GD: Give him strength and recognize his hardships thus far. Honestly, a great song
BobbyJ: Yes, it's exactly right
GD: So, I think both of our wishes for Hongjoong is probably something like we wish him the strength of leadership and purpose for bringing the group together?
BobbyJ: I want him to have the confidence he's doing the right thing
GD: Yes. That sounds right
BobbyJ: Do you have a rosary?
GD: I was looking at the lyrics from the leader to see if anything popped out
BobbyJ: I have one, that is related metaphorically
GD: I will take it. Lyrics rosary isn't the norm
BobbyJ: Dance a real dance
GD: Hongjoong
BobbyJ: Be the light
GD: Halazia
Thank you for joining us for the first page of the second Fever Diary! Let us know what you think about our first glimpses of Strictland in the comments!
We will be back next week to discuss San's page.
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