[Note: This series originally started as a project on Reddit, and we are archiving the posts here on our site. You can find the original Bible Study posts here.]
Today we are continuing the discussion we started last week about Wooyoung!
We've discussed our many confusions about this moment in the story where the boys finally lose the Cromer, and now we will work to make meaning through some sacred practices! Today, we're doing a sacred reading practice, which is where we attempt to make find new meaning through reading a single line very deeply.
03: sacred practice
GD: The line is 4, which I'm interpreting as:
Tired of being chased and running away, we fell asleep immediately, and in the meantime, the girl healed my ankle.
But there are arguably two clauses in that sentence. We could just look at the second one "in the meantime, the girl healed my ankle."
BobbyJ: Not arguably even. There just are two clauses
GD: Lol yes
BobbyJ: Okay. Well. I'm down for whichever
GD: I think let's just do the second clause because it's the part that is mostly on 4. Alright, so, what's happening at a narrative level?
BobbyJ: Ateez have just escaped the guardians for the second time but lost the Cromer in the process because they chose to save Wooyoung. Though that might be conjecture on my part. So just--they escaped but lost the cromer
GD: Yeah, I have so many questions, but there are no answers. So the next step
BobbyJ: Actually it's not even that they escaped
GD: Right--they just left after getting the thing they wanted
BobbyJ: The guardians leave and then the Grimes girl opens up her secret cave entrance to let them in. Is it a cave actually?. . . Yes. A cave in the forest
GD: That's what it suggests. So, what's happening at an allegorical level? What does this remind you of in other stories, other parts of ateez lore, etc.
This is only mildly relevant, but it is what I immediately thought of: my writer friend and I often joke about how someone in our stories always hurts their ankle in third act
BobbyJ: The Grimes girl reminds me a bit of Primrose Everdeen. As like an archetype
GD: Oh! I agree
BobbyJ: The young innocent and trusting girl. I want to talk about how she trusts them immediately
GD: I have two differing thoughts/questions on that, actually. Does she trust them because she too recognizes their faces? Or is it more of an intuit/innocence thing?
BobbyJ: I was just thinking about that--does she recognize them? And my question is, do the people in strictland know what Halateez look like? They wear masks and hats. Like, she never says "wow y'all look just like the Black Pirates.” Not just because she can't. But I'm not sure that Halateez's faces are widely known
GD: Also, thinking ahead, the brother seems to explain a lot of things to Hwa, and he wouldn't need to do that if they assumed they were the Black Pirates
BobbyJ: Right. It's the uniform that is recognizable
GD: Have you read a Christmas Carol?
BobbyJ: Ages ago, but yes
GD: You know the ghost of Christmas present? How he has the two children underneath his robe that are for like want and ignorance? The grimes kids sort of remind me of that, but with like innocence and faith. The opposite side of humanity
BobbyJ: Wow I have no memory of that at all. But, yes. They seem to represent the goodness that is trying to survive
GD: I taught Christmas Carol to 7th graders so my knowledge of it runs bone deep
BobbyJ: I only taught it for one year before I was like "how about we don't?"
GD: LOL. 7th graders do not understand or appreciate it at all
It is, on the other hand, one of my favorite stories of all time, so I do listen to it every year
Anyways, every thing in the story is metaphorical, basically, since it's a parable. And it makes me think about some of the thoughts I've been having as we read this story. Like, the story itself is very streamlined, which you can argue is because they have to fit it into these short diaries
but, I guess I would argue that they're also relying on a shared understanding and metaphor to make the story work despite the streamlining of it. Which is why we are able to so easily connect with it and pull a lot of different meanings. And I do mean streamlined in that they leave a lot of things out and skip over a lot of parts--not that it's simple.
BobbyJ: But back to the original question--I do think that it is innocence that leads the girl to open her home to them. She probably saw that they were being chased by the guardians and likely knows what it's like to run for her life. She's been taken by them at least once before. I still think it's interesting that they chose to take her voice rather than recondition her.
GD: I agree on the innocence, and as an aside, I feel like the girl without a voice is an archetype as well? Like it represents something on a deeper level, and if you think about the story as a metaphor instead of a traditional hero’s journey, the only correct choice was to have an innocent girl with no voice.
I sort of have an interest in the phrase "in the mean time" and the word "heal.” We talked a bit about what does it mean that she healed it so quickly, and I guess looking at those words now, it reminds me of the saying "time heals all wounds"
BobbyJ: I interpret it more as she "treated" his ankle with some herbs or something.
GD: I also interpret it that way
BobbyJ: But it also isn't clear how long they spend in the cave
GD: Gave him some ice or something
BobbyJ: Where would she get ice?
GD: The magic fridge she keeps in the cave
BobbyJ: I can't get over that they just immediately fell asleep. I don't care how tired I was, I would be freaking out. But that makes them also seem very innocent and trusting. Not that they would need to be wary about a young boy and girl.
GD: This is what I mean when I say streamlined. We literally skip over any normal human behavior, and have to interpret their actions based on metaphor for what it tells us about them
They should, absolutely, be demanding answers and losing their god damn mind. But they don't
And I think that's a little similar to what the writers do in the intro when they first arrive? They have the android guardians come immediately so we miss the story beat of the characters interacting and freaking out about what just happened. Normal story beats being streamlined by the use of metaphor so that the story is intuited instead of told
BobbyJ: Like, because we've been armed with so much character knowledge, we're left to interpret or supply all character-based actions and interactions ourselves.
Quick note--I've been editing on the side and last week you mentioned that Strictland might have advanced medicine that can insta-heal. So I'm bringing that back to the table
GD: Yes, I do think that's a reasonable interpretation for how Woo was healed in the meantime
I feel like people are often frustrated by the lack of clear answers in the diaries about some story things--and I guess my whole point today is that I think that's by design. The writers could have easily spelled it out if they wanted to, but being told things clearly doesn't necessarily make for an engaging story.
BobbyJ: Here's what I know about kpop fans (and people in general): they don't like uncertainties. It's why we're so obsessed with numbers. How do we know who's the best if we don't know how many albums they sold or streams they've earned?
GD: The world is an uncertain place--people want answers. Answers often do not exist
BobbyJ: Yes, it's understandable. But I'm not interested in that energy applied to art
GD: I think that's why the word heal is interesting to me. Regardless of what she did or how she did it, the important thing is that this young girl with no voice still made a difference with the skills that she does have, and she has arguably set off a series of events that will lead to the change of the whole world. Because she was kind.
What would've happened if she'd left them out there? Would they have survived? Would they have figured out what was going on? Who knows, you know? The character itself represents the power that a childlike innocence and faith can have against the evils of the world, so who cares if she used an ice pack or actual magic?
BobbyJ: Right. Kindness and hospitality are very overlooked qualities. And it's not just Ateez that she has helped along the way. She and her brother become wrapped up in the story as well and join in on the journey. It leads to Left Eye and the healing he experiences thanks to Yunho
Given what they represent, it makes their end all the more tragic.
GD: But sort of fitting...
It reminds me a little of the ending of the Hunger Games series? Innocence and kindness are values that get lost when evil takes over, and it is sad. We should be sad about that--and that's why you can't ever let evil win long term. It's why everyone has to keep fighting. No one should be silent and let it happen.
BobbyJ: I think too that choosing to do what's good and right doesn't guarantee you protection from evil. I think it's also telling that their deaths (or whatever happens to them actually?) are senseless? Like they don't lead to any grand conclusion. They are just more casualties of the war and of Z's greed or lust for power or whatever his deal is.
GD: Death is often senseless.
BobbyJ: It's dissatisfying on a narrative level, but still important
GD: I read The Inheritance Games recently, and I will probably write a post about this for booktiny, but there's a line from one of the characters about how "moral choices depend solely on the outcome of an action"
And he was talking about how when he's giving to charity, the impact he can make with his money tells him the morality of the giving. So, giving to a single homeless person wouldn't be as moral as giving to a town. And I don't think he was right, but it reminds me of some of the things at play here. A question of scales maybe? Like, if you give to a town, the homeless person there could still die, but maybe someone else wouldn't? Or you could give to the homeless person directly in the town and make sure he survives, but not at all change the suffering level of the rest of the town
BobbyJ: That's a millionaire question
GD: They are in fact millionaires in the book, and that's basically exactly what the main character tells him
Anyways, I don't have any meaning to pull from that and what happens to the Grimes/Left Eye. But I guess both things remind me of the fact that senseless and tragic things happen regardless of what you do, the question is how do you live with yourself and how do you keep going
BobbyJ: We can only do what we each are capable of. There's no amount of money I could give to a town that would make any sort of impact. But I could give $50 to a homeless person for them to eat for a few days. Am I less moral than a millionaire because of the size of my contribution?
But I think that connects to GG because she did what she could with what she had. Sure she just provided shelter for some boys but that relatively small gesture, like you said, created a wave of change
GD: Make a wave. I'm reminded of The Giver a bit too?
BobbyJ: You mean Jonas really only saved Gabriel? Or rather--on the surface he just saves this one child, but it had greater impact than that
GD: Sort of? I guess I'm thinking.. if you ignore the sequels, the end of the book was open to interpretation. And I did interpret it as Jonas and Gabriel dying. So, if you interpret it that way, then they didn't even really save themselves or make that change. But, they did release the memories hoping that the memories would cause the town to wake up one day, which we don't actually see. So it's like, we did this thing that may or may not have an impact because we couldn't sit by and do nothing.
I guess I'm saying something like, evil doesn't win when good people die senseless deaths--evil wins when everyone gives up.
BobbyJ: Mmmm, yes. I'm also thinking of our discussion two weeks about choice. You can only choose the sort of person you will be, not the outcomes of your choices
GD: Yeah, and I think it's just important to show what characters do when senselessly tragic things happen. Are they defeated? Or do they keep going? So story wise, the deaths aren't senseless at all, and they do represent the very real chaos and unfairness inherent in many aspects of life
BobbyJ: Yunho is really a perfect example of this. We don't get to see any of the fallout of his brother's second death, but we know he doesn't give up but he keeps fighting the fight that is arguably the reason his brother died
GD: Oh my god, I realized we still have 2 more steps to our reading practice. Any other thoughts about allegory before we talk about our own lives?
BobbyJ: I don't think so
GD: Okay, then what does this remind you of in your own life?
For me specifically, I keep noting and coming back to the words "in the meantime", and I guess it is making me think about what I'm doing with my "meantime" if that makes sense?
BobbyJ: Right--like it feels like I spend a lot of time waiting for things to happen. But that period of waiting doesn't need to be a stagnant time for me, you know?
GD: My "what is the text inviting you to do?" is related to this. Anything else it reminds you of in your own life before we go to that?
BobbyJ: I think this idea that she did what she could with what she had. It often feels like I could be so much more [fill in the blank] if I could have/be/do this thing.
GD: Yeah, I agree completely. I could be the person I want to be only if [whatever]
BobbyJ: I don't know if this is an internet comparison thing or if it's my inability to measure up to my own standards. But I appreciate that GG didn't have a grand house, but she still offered her humble little cave
GD: We've talked about this before, but studies show that comparison is one of the most natural human things we do. Like even if we don't want to compare ourselves to others, our brains do it without conscious thought. The internet just gives us just more people to compare ourselves with
You're a teacher, and I was a teacher, and I'm thinking about what it was like to be a new teacher. IDK how it went for you, but I was given nothing and had to really figure it out for myself
BobbyJ: Same
GD: Looking back, I feel it would've been nice for someone to give me access to their cave, you know? Even if the cave was humble--it would've been nice
BobbyJ: Everyone told me that year that I did a great job, but I remember telling my mentor teacher (that I rarely spoke to bc she was super busy) that I felt bad for the kids that year because I knew I wasn't doing the best I was really capable of
I wish that I'd had a more developed mentor relationship with that teacher but it just wasn't a priority. And it's something that's very important to me even today where I feel pretty settled into my role. So, I've told my principal and my department chair that if they hire someone new to teaching, I'd be happy to partner with them because I feel like having someone you can just connect with on a regular basis who is invested in your success can really make or break your early teaching career
GD: I felt this way about the students too...
Like I had a list of students that I gave to my principle when I quit and said "all of these kids are kids that I meet with every week to check on. I go to their teachers and ask about their grades, and I talk to the kids in the halls before or after school. Someone has to do that when I go."
Relationships, and feeling like someone is on your side, are just so vitally important
BobbyJ: Yes. Building relationships with the kids is a big deal at my school. Which since I'm at a mid-sized private school is decidedly easier than most public schools. I have 93 students, which is still a lot to get to know, but I also have the advantage of having kids with parents who really care. So it's not like I'm the only adult in their lives who's trying to keep them afloat.
GD: Yeah, this was when I was 504 coordinator at a public school, so genuinely kids who would and probably did fall through the cracks when I left, which I felt soooo guilty about and still do
BobbyJ: But that's not and shouldn't be your responsibility. Which I know you know
GD: Logic and feelings rarely match up, unfortunately
BobbyJ: But the teaching profession really comes with a lot of guilt built in because we deal with children
GD: Teaching in public school, I had 140 students. As a 504 coordinator, I had the whole school
Anyways, if we get side tracked by the failing education system, we will never finish
BobbyJ: Seriously
GD: So, as far as what it's inviting me to do, it is to use my meantime more thoughtfully
My author friend is currently working on a book where the theme is about growth, and we had a 3 hour long conversation about what it means to grow and whether or not we had a moral choice to grow, and I argued that we didn't. And I maintain that change is constant, but growth is a capitalist trick/trap. But with the same breath, I'd say that I am often frustrated with the ways in which I fail to use my own meantime 'well'
Perhaps on the day, 'well' means productively, and perhaps some days it means something similar to healing, and maybe it could also mean something akin to what GG does: helping others, making a difference, etc. So I want to be more cognizant of how I'm using my meantime instead of just letting it pass me by and being frustrated when I get into bed at night thinking about where my day went
BobbyJ: I guess I would argue it depends on your definition of growth, but I disagree that growth is a capitalist trap/trick. There's a person that I want to be, and I don't believe the choices I make to become that person are related to capitalism at all. But if you're saying growth as in increased productivity--which I think is what you mean?--then yes. Capitalism all the way down. The idea that I MUST spend all my minutes productively is nonsense. I'm not a machine
GD: I suppose my real thought is something more like capitalism has invaded our vocabulary in such a way that it is hard to remove the capitalist baggage I associate with the word growth.
BobbyJ: Interesting. The concept of growth is entirely divorced from capitalism in my mind
GD: Perhaps this is why I'm so anti-capitalist. It's ruined me.
BobbyJ: Like I automatically think mental/emotional/spiritual
GD: I call that enlightenment and fulfillment, not growth, but of course it is a type of growth
BobbyJ: You need the specificity to create distance
GD: When I hear growth, I think "more" and "better" and "bigger"
BobbyJ: Huh.
GD: I grew up in a very capitalistic environment, including going to law school, and am really tapped into the hustle culture (like there is no one more likely to monetize a hobby than me) so I think it's just a product of my environment
BobbyJ: There is no one less likely to hustle than me
GD: Even on reddit--I could've just had a nice time discussing ateez, but I turned my hobby into a job (even if it is one I don't get paid for). I took us diving deep into these lore books and decided we should make it into content. I just cannot help myself
BobbyJ: Would bible study be as fulfilling for you if it never left our chat?
GD: I genuinely have no idea. I think it would probably maintain it's fulfillingness, but I think it would lose something else. I don't know what that something else is? We know most people aren't interested in this, but there is something about sharing it that feels Important in the big scheme of things
BobbyJ: I feel you're being too critical of yourself. There's a difference between trying to monetize something and simply wanting to share something with others who might appreciate it.
And I think it goes back to choosing to be the person you want to be? You find the diaries interesting and important and why wouldn't you want to share that?
GD: I think this is where my critique of capitalism comes from though
BobbyJ: That it makes things seem capitalist when they aren't?
GD: I am more likely than anyone to try to monetize things I enjoy, which I think is not so much my own capitalism as much as this feeling in my soul that finds it deeply frustrating that the things that make life worth living for me are not things that I can get paid to do. I think it's me being frustrated at having to play a game I don't want to play. If I knew of a way to monetize our bible studies, believe me, I'd be doing it.
BobbyJ: Podcast. It's right there
GD: The obvious answer is a podcast with ads, but the amount of things I'd need to learn compared to the very little money we would make is the only reason I haven't forced you into it
BobbyJ: Funny considering it's always been my idea
GD: I have made the very capitalist determination that I need to wait for you to learn all the things that need to be learned
BobbyJ: Well, my fatal flaw is inaction, so you will be waiting a good long while.
GD: I mean, it's entirely possible that I will decide enough is enough and this has to bring me some income, but for now, I can wait
BobbyJ: I can't wait to be earning $3 a month from bible study
GD: Incredible you think we'll get 3 whole dollars a month
BobbyJ: I dream big.
Okay, so. . . can I be honest and say that this passage is not inviting me to do anything at all?
GD: Yes
BobbyJ: And I can't say whether it's the passage itself just not fully resonating with me or if it's more where I am in my life right now
GD: We did shorten the passage to a relatively small sentence, but just in general, I think it's okay to be fine with examining something and then putting it back down without letting it really touch you
BobbyJ: I do think that's true. But I'm also in this weird and awkward place where I know something bad is on the horizon and I'm forced to just wait for it to happen without knowing when that might be. So, I'm in a meantime. And during this meantime, intentional growth is not for me.
GD: There is something to be said for not examining our meantime to closely too. We've certainly talked in bible study about living in the present and being grateful for small moments
04: closing
BobbyJ: What is our song for Wooyoung? Or for GG?
GD: Hmmm. This one feels hard to me. Have we used Better before?
BobbyJ: We have not.
Can I make an odd suggestion? Just go right off book
GD: Yes
BobbyJ: I would like to consider dedicating Eden's 'Little Bird' to GG
GD: Well in this household we love Eden. Let me look it up real quick. Remind myself of it
BobbyJ: It's very melancholy but a bit hopeful?
GD: Yes, I like it. So today's bible study song is Eden's Little Bird for GG?
BobbyJ: Yes, if you approve. (A quick note on the lyrics.)
GD: I love that bit about each translator doing it differently, which is why I would like KQ to give me all of their official translations for each song please.
I approve.
BobbyJ: I think my prayer for Wooyoung is that he will always be surrounded by as much love as he gives
GD: We see this in real life too--his love attracts love. Everyone loves Wooyoung, and I think it's because he gives his love so freely once he's decided you're one of his
BobbyJ: I have a rosary thought--are we ready to close?
GD: Yes
BobbyJ: Never alone
GD: Wooyoung
BobbyJ: Be the light
GD: Halazia
BobbyJ: Well done everybody
GD: High fives all around.
Nice work on the rosary. My brain has stopped braining.
BobbyJ: Wooyoung is an inspiration to us all
And that's it for our discussion on Wooyoung! Next week we will be back with the start of Seonghwa's page. Let us know what you thought of Wooyoung's section and whether you had any different thoughts on the quote we looked at today!
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